The Flight Options Army part II

[Jetz]

Better watch it smelly

There exists a thread in the UNION forum just for you NetJetWife. http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=83334 Why dont you post there? Then, we dont have to ignore you. Anytime we need our NJWife sunshine, butterflies and 1108 holy war fix, we can visit you there.

Leave these areas to the PILOTS, ok, specifically us Flight Options boys and girls. When you get your wings we will be happy to read you then.

:bawling:

Smelly watch your 6.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-10-10-internet-defamation-case_x.htm

This could be any of us who try to shoot her down. :laugh:

 

[netjetwife]

I'm pretty sure they can't hold MEC elections until a larger percentage are members in good standing (as in paying dues). You might want to check your with sources on that one.

I do have friends on the Organizing Committee that I could ask, but then I'd miss the opportunity to directly encourage the Options pilots to pay dues and vote.... I'd also like to hear directly from them who they will be voting for and how they're holding up during their contract negotiations.

 

[Smellycat]

All gung ho Flops pilots

For all of those Flops pilots gung ho about the new union, please join this very hot thread at http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=87087 where all of the important issues are being discussed with great passion.

Thank you.

 

[Ultra Grump]

NJW - the point is, they can't vote for anyone until they ALL start paying dues. They were allowed to vote on the bylaws only because a special exception was made for that one instance. I don't have the details, so check with your hubby for those.

 

[netjetwife]

UG, I understand that already; I hoped we could generate some interest in the situation and provide positive feedback, if needed....

 

[p3hawk]

So much for the FLOPS responce ?

 

[RNObased]

UG, I understand that already; I hoped we could generate some interest in the situation and provide positive feedback, if needed....

NJW,
Well if the FLOPS guys cared about their future they would act on their futures. Talk is cheap. They need to have "X" amount of their people paying dues to vote in a MEC. Think that will happen?? Doubt it!!

The vast number of FLOPS guys I run into on the road don't know about the union drive, nor seem to care. You can tell me all day that they sent in their union cards so they care, not buying it. Mean while, I'm paying dues to support the team of lawyers that are working for them, even though they don't care. Sad, sad, sad....

 

[p3hawk]

Flops Union ???

I'm with ya broth'a

 

[netjetwife]

They've been led for some time by a dedicated Leadership Council; they may not see any difference in that or an MEC.

There were plenty of apathetic NJ pilots that had to be convinced to follow the lead of SU. Considering that, I think the Options pilots can be shown some patience, and our pilots that work with them a little more support...

 

[Ultra Grump]

They have my support, but to ask who they're voting for for MEC is a bit premature. They need to pay their dues first. And for them, the sooner the better. They're gonna hate the arrears payment they'll have to make in the future.

 

[netjetwife]

Premature...or an ice-breaker? It depends on your perspective. One hopes that paying the dues would follow an enlightening conversation and/or more interest generated. Sometimes a friendly nudge in the right direction can be helpful in getting things done.

I'm trying to understand their reticence and wondered if already having leaders in place means the MEC vote isn't viewed as a big deal to them. I don't know how they see it; that's why I'm asking.

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Here's why Flight Options Pilots (some) aren't paying dues:

* one of the selling points for the union was "no dues til contract".
* it won't help. Like arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. It is still going down.
* netjet pilots aren't paying flight options way. If flight options pilots all paid dues tomorrow, net jets pilots would still pay the same amount as today.

 

[netjetwife]

Here's why Flight Options Pilots (some) aren't paying dues:

Thanks, Mr. Magoo, that's what I was hoping to generate by my question.

* one of the selling points for the union was "no dues til contract".

Many think like UG--better a small amount over time rather than a big "catch-up" payment when the contract is done. The mantra seems to have been too simplified. Postponed does not mean "no charge". Do all of the Options pilots realize/remember that?

* it won't help. Like arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. It is still going down.

Rumors have been out there for years, and the company has stayed afloat. How much time has passed since the group first started sending in cards? The naysayers could have said the same thing then and now your group is working on a contract. Isn't it far better to work for your future and be prepared when it gets here than risk hurting your chance of success by not participating There's a difference between reasons and excuses. The selling point is the former; this is the latter. Hopefully it is said much less.

* netjet pilots aren't paying flight options way. If flight options pilots all paid dues tomorrow, net jets pilots would still pay the same amount as today.

With all due respect to the Options pilots this attitude is not an accurate reflection of the situation. True, the NJ pilots would not see a decrease in their dues, but more of their money would be available for their own needs. The NJ pilots would like to start a Pilot Aid Fund; that hasn't been financed yet. It is common for some people to say that charity should begin at home. While so far it seems that the NJ group has been supportive there comes a point when a hand up starts looking like a hand out and resentment then supplants the desire to help. The potential damage to the good will between the pilot groups far exceeds the difference paying your dues will make to your paycheck. Please do your part to foster unity. As you can tell from posts here, some of the NJ pilots need to see tangible evidence that the Options pilots are working hard for their future.

Paying dues is considered a strong sign that you mean business. Word like that will definitely make its way back to upper management. It has huge psy ops potential! What a tremendous show of unity and resolve would be demonstrated if the Options pilots turned in their dues and voted in their own MEC. Lack of interest --whether real or only perceived--makes your group look weak at a time they need to be standing tall and walking proud. To the individual pilot it's a small amount of money, but collectively it makes a huge difference in the support and respect your group will receive. It is critical that you realize the vast symbolism that is at stake here. Additionally, it's such an easy way for the pilots to make a direct contribution to their success that it amazes me that the majority haven't taken this basic step. When you look at what the NJ pilots did to win their contract battle--donations to Strong Union was one of the first things to put them on the right track. I can't stress enough that it's not just the actual means to finance your campaign; it is every bit as empowering to let the other side know how much you mean business. We all know that money talks. Time to let them hear you shout.

PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY

 

[p3hawk]

Thanks, Mr. Magoo, that's what I was hoping to generate by my question.

* one of the selling points for the union was "no dues til contract".

Many think like UG--better a small amount over time rather than a big "catch-up" payment when the contract is done. The mantra seems to have been too simplified. Postponed does not mean "no charge". Do all of the Options pilots realize/remember that?

* it won't help. Like arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. It is still going down.

Rumors have been out there for years, and the company has stayed afloat. How much time has passed since the group first started sending in cards? The naysayers could have said the same thing then and now your group is working on a contract. Isn't it far better to work for your future and be prepared when it gets here than risk hurting your chance of success by not participating There's a difference between reasons and excuses. The selling point is the former; this is the latter. Hopefully it is said much less.

* netjet pilots aren't paying flight options way. If flight options pilots all paid dues tomorrow, net jets pilots would still pay the same amount as today.

With all due respect to the Options pilots this attitude is not an accurate reflection of the situation. True, the NJ pilots would not see a decrease in their dues, but more of their money would be available for their own needs. The NJ pilots would like to start a Pilot Aid Fund; that hasn't been financed yet. It is common for some people to say that charity should begin at home. While so far it seems that the NJ group has been supportive there comes a point when a hand up starts looking like a hand out and resentment then supplants the desire to help. The potential damage to the good will between the pilot groups far exceeds the difference paying your dues will make to your paycheck. Please do your part to foster unity. As you can tell from posts here, some of the NJ pilots need to see tangible evidence that the Options pilots are working hard for their future.

Paying dues is considered a strong sign that you mean business. Word like that will definitely make its way back to upper management. It has huge psy ops potential! What a tremendous show of unity and resolve would be demonstrated if the Options pilots turned in their dues and voted in their own MEC. Lack of interest --whether real or only perceived--makes your group look weak at a time they need to be standing tall and walking proud. To the individual pilot it's a small amount of money, but collectively it makes a huge difference in the support and respect your group will receive. It is critical that you realize the vast symbolism that is at stake here. Additionally, it's such an easy way for the pilots to make a direct contribution to their success that it amazes me that the majority haven't taken this basic step. When you look at what the NJ pilots did to win their contract battle--donations to Strong Union was one of the first things to put them on the right track. I can't stress enough that it's not just the actual means to finance your campaign; it is every bit as empowering to let the other side know how much you mean business. We all know that money talks. Time to let them hear you shout.

PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY

That is a good point NJW

 

[RNObased]

* netjet pilots aren't paying flight options way. If flight options pilots all paid dues tomorrow, net jets pilots would still pay the same amount as today.

Wow Magoo exellent point... NOT

That isn't what I'm saying, nor care about. I care about throwing my dues awya on something that isn't going anywhere. We can use that money for things that benefit our pilot group. Don't really care if my dues drop or not, in fact I think they are going up soon.

 

[nerdpilot]

Good point

Here's why Flight Options Pilots (some) aren't paying dues:

* one of the selling points for the union was "no dues til contract".
* it won't help. Like arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. It is still going down.
* netjet pilots aren't paying flight options way. If flight options pilots all paid dues tomorrow, net jets pilots would still pay the same amount as today.

Also forgot that many are on the way out and see no reason to pay dues for something they dont plan on sticking around for. Dont forget who sent emails and literature in the mail asking the pilots to join the union before any of this began. I do believe the union is a good thing but when you sell the pilots on not having to pay a dime until the union earns its keep and get a contract, then changes the rules after the vote doesnt sit well with alot of people.

 

[netjetwife]

The rules haven't been changed on you. You still have the option to continue like you have been; however, being able to vote in your own MEC would help you to make sure that your group's interests are represented better, wouldn't it? 1108 has to follow rules, too. The IBT constitution governs elections and paying dues is a prerequisite for voting and/or running for office.

True enough. Those looking for another job would have little motivation to pay dues, I suppose. But at what point does it become obvious that they aren't moving on? 3 months? 6 months? I guess if they're still around when you get your contract that they can pay the back dues, but it would be much more helpful if those not leaving in the very near future would just roll up their sleeves and join the fight. After all, the point is to make the job one worth keeping so that none of you have to keep moving on.

You are the Union, Options pilots, and paying dues is organized self-help. That money is an investment in your future. Please help us help you.

 

[SCT]

"Please help us help you.".......NJW

Spoken like a true socialist there, NJW.

 

[netjetwife]

"Please help us help you.".......NJW

Spoken like a true socialist there, NJW.

SCT, please help me help you.....it's called the ignore function....


Options pilots, full participation will give you the greatest chance for success at the bargaining table. Negotiating your contract is a legal right. Standing up for one's rights is an American tradition. You're fighting for yourselves, your families, your fellow pilots and your peers in the industry. It's a cause to be proud of, and your demands are justified.
Best Wishes!
Netjetwife

 

[RNObased]

"Please help us help you.".......NJW

Spoken like a true socialist there, NJW.

Well it isn't often that I come down on the side of NJW, but this time I have to.

Socialist??? Hmmm... Not even close, but go with that if it makes you feel better about not helping yourself. Next thing you will be calling all of us Facists, or commies....