The continued screwing of the Midex Pilots

[maxblast72]

I have a feeling that the ATN MEC would be more than happy to push the company to give preferential hiring for former MEA pilots.

PCL_128, please don't waste any time pushing management on this issue. Please use your time with management on bigger issues to our pilot group. Midwest MEC already spoke on their opinion about Airtran. Their pilot group didn't recall the MEC so I have to believe the pilot group was behind the MEC.

I have plenty of good friends at regional airlines that would love to be at Airtran. I would much rather fly with them someday rather than some bitter Midwest guys. They tied their support to Hoeksma. Why shouldn't they take responsibility for that decision? Noone takes responsibility for their decisions nowadays.

 

[sleeves]

If you use my company's metal, you are going to use my company's pilots.

Your company bought his company that means you both work for the same place now.

 

[airlinepilot]

Do RAH guys are you also going to fly Frontier's aircraft or replace their routes with your aircraft?

 

[Ty Webb]

Maxblast, wake the hell up, fool. Midwest had 350+ plots. There were plenty of pilots who wanted the merger. We've hired 30+ retired Delta guys. They've been great to fly with. I'd welcome any Midwest Pilots, with the notable exception of F.I. poster Chuck Yogurt/whatever/Fireman (anyone remember that d0ucheb@g?).

Unfortunately, it's all a moot point, since we're not hiring, and probably won't be until new airplanes start showing up in a couple of years, or if some other airline starts hiring again so our Pilots have somewhere to go.

 

[ultrarunner]

What are the pay scales for Frontier right now compared to what Midwest has?

F9 CA goes from $111 to $156, FO $37 to $94. 14 year scale

MidEx CA is $82 to $153, FO $41 to $100. 16 year scale.

 

[airlinepilot]

Why won't RAH do the same thing to F9

F9 CA goes from $111 to $156, FO $37 to $94. 14 year scale

MidEx CA is $82 to $153, FO $41 to $100. 16 year scale.

After looking at the pay scales it looks like it might save alot of money if they fly F9 routes with RAH airplanes and crews. Will be interesting to see all this!

 

[ultrarunner]

F9 is not viable in its current state. If it were, they wouldn't have been in BK. With that said, anyone that thinks F9 will continue to be operated as a stand-alone outfit is just crazy.

There is no reason to think F9's flying won't be replaced as the MidEx flying has.

 

[airlinepilot]

Comparing pay rates

F9 CA goes from $111 to $156, FO $37 to $94. 14 year scale

MidEx CA is $82 to $153, FO $41 to $100. 16 year scale.

How do these rates compare to the RAH rates?

 

[BoilerUP]

F9 is not viable in its current state. If it were, they wouldn't have been in BK.

While Frontier had been losing money, they were forced into bankruptcy by a credit card company withholding funds. While I'm no accounting guru, it would seem the loss of that expected cash flow didn't allow them to meet obligations, hence the filing.

Frontier *has* been profitable over the last many months, however...

 

[ultrarunner]

how do these rates compare to the rah rates?

much better!

 

[airlinepilot]

What are the RAH rates?

much better!

Also, since there is one senority list can you bid difference organization or airplanes?

 

[ultrarunner]

Also, since there is one senority list can you bid difference organization or airplanes?

Yes..

 

[airlinepilot]

Bidding over to the Bus

Yes..

I guess that means that if RAH keeps the Air Bus that the senior guy at RAH could bid over to them and the higher pay scales.

 

[ultrarunner]

I guess that means that if RAH keeps the Air Bus that the senior guy at RAH could bid over to them and the higher pay scales.

That will ONLY work if the F9 list is integrated with the RAH list. It's likely F9 is going to be operated separately, and in my opinion, the Airbuses will go away and that flying will be replaced, as did the MidEx flying.

 

[Minimaniac]

RAH pilots and planes cannot genuinely replace Frontier pilots and planes for the simple fact that the Embraer does not have the same range and payload abilities as the Airbus. Likewise, the RAH contract does not allow a senior pilot to bump another pilot out of equipment or base. Even if the number 1 RAH/F9 combined list pilot is a CHQ 145 driver, he cannot take the seat of the most junior F9 airbus captain.

The 717 and the E190 are similar in range, and can carry similar payloads (in terms of how Midwest was utilizing the 717). The E190 basically could replace the 717, and not require any compromising of the existing route structure.

 

[Cardinal]

That will ONLY work if the F9 list is integrated with the RAH list. It's likely F9 is going to be operated separately, and in my opinion, the Airbuses will go away and that flying will be replaced, as did the MidEx flying.

So you think it's rational to replace an aircraft that is making money with a 6.5 cent casm (the Airbus) with a smaller machine that brings with it a 7.5 cent casm (the 190) ??? Thank you for "your opinion."

 

[Stanky]

How do these rates compare to the RAH rates?

Republic 20 Year Scale Captains 50-119/hr. FO 23-37/hr.

Midex 16 Year Scale Captains 82-153/hr. FO 41-100/hr.

Frontier 14 Year Scale Captains 111-156/hr. FO 37-94/hr.

If there isn't growth, or a new contract, I would hate to be a Republic FO. $37/hr as the top of scale for twenty years of service, that is incredible to me.

When is the Rev. gonna sit down with you guys and write some liveable rates? How long have you been in negotiations? Are you in mediation yet? Has there been a strike vote? Have you done anything to try to move the process forward, or are you all just interested in building time so that one of the few remaining decent airlines will hire you? I ask because, if you have 5 or 10 year FO's flying 100 passenger jets around for $37/hr., I'm not sure there's going to be too many good flying jobs left.

This industry is not the same one that I joined 20 years ago, and I realize that it will probably never come back to what it once was, but the race to the bottom has got to stop.

Flame away.

 

[ultrarunner]

So you think it's rational to replace an aircraft that is making money with a 6.5 cent casm (the Airbus) with a smaller machine that brings with it a 7.5 cent casm (the 190) ??? Thank you for "your opinion."

I would argue there are plenty of city pairs out of DEN that the E-jets can easily replace the larger airbuses and be profitable. I would expect when the dust settles, you'll see the airbus doing mostly the long-haul stuff out of DEN.

 

[Stanky]

RAH pilots and planes cannot genuinely replace Frontier pilots and planes for the simple fact that the Embraer does not have the same range and payload abilities as the Airbus. Likewise, the RAH contract does not allow a senior pilot to bump another pilot out of equipment or base. Even if the number 1 RAH/F9 combined list pilot is a CHQ 145 driver, he cannot take the seat of the most junior F9 airbus captain.

The 717 and the E190 are similar in range, and can carry similar payloads (in terms of how Midwest was utilizing the 717). The E190 basically could replace the 717, and not require any compromising of the existing route structure.

By the way, the 717 has no where near the range of the 190. That's one of the multitude of reasons that it should pay mainline rates and not be treated as a small regional jet.

 

[surplus1]

How will the Delta pilots scope clause affect RAH's contract as a Delta Connection carrier in the light of the RAH aquisitions?