The continued screwing of the Midex Pilots

[kf4amu]

Oh, is that a fact? Seems like yet another pointless, antagonizing comment.

Nobody went to Republic because of their awesome pay-rates or work rules thats for sure.

 

[Full of LUV]

Interesting locals.....

Nobody went to Republic because of their awesome pay-rates or work rules thats for sure.

No, it was for the interisland flying in Hawaii, or the cold winters in MKE. There is probably more variety in the RAH system to bid now than most airlines, bar the "legacies".

 

[DOVPILOT]

Meanwhile there's RAH FO's salivating at the upgrade opportunities....

One pilot's growth is another pilot's job.

Oh, if you only knew what they were saying about you too!!!! "Hey man they were going to be on the street anyway!!!!"

 

[airlinepilot]

The lawyers will love this one. If RAH does F9 differently then boy does that open the door.....

 

[RedRum]

I don't know about backroom management dealings, but I do think there is a lot less conspiracy in this world than we tend to believe. RAH was contracted to replace LOST (or soon to be lost via ended leases with Boeing) airframes, not to replace airframes that would otherwise have stayed in service. Where was the fuss when Midwest brought Skywest onboard to fly some routes?

Mr. EMB-175 driver,

There is no conspiracy. This is pretty cut and dry. If the leases were up on the MD-80s and the 717's, then Midwest could have extended leases or purchased newer aircraft and used MIDWEST PILOTS!

Whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better while watching the MidEx pilots suffer, go ahead and do it. But don't try to sugar coat it. MidEx pilots are being completely outsourced to an airline that has cheaper labor. Period. End of sentence. It is plain and simple.

What is ALPA going to do to help the MidEx pilots? As a fellow ALPA pilot, I am fed up with this type of thing happening in our profession. We all need to stand together and unite on this. Maybe the IBT will come around and see this situation for what it is...a complete sham and an outrage for all MidEx pilots. If pilots from other ALPA carriers don't stand behind MidEx and their pilots, this is going to set a nasty precedence for future dealings.

Enough is enough. MidEx needs solidarity RIGHT NOW. I encourage everyone to call their ALPA reps and find out what our National officers are doing to deal with this scourge of a situation.

 

[Stanky]

Mr. EMB-175 driver,

There is no conspiracy. This is pretty cut and dry. If the leases were up on the MD-80s and the 717's, then Midwest could have extended leases or purchased newer aircraft and used MIDWEST PILOTS!

Whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better while watching the MidEx pilots suffer, go ahead and do it. But don't try to sugar coat it. MidEx pilots are being completely outsourced to an airline that has cheaper labor. Period. End of sentence. It is plain and simple.

What is ALPA going to do to help the MidEx pilots? As a fellow ALPA pilot, I am fed up with this type of thing happening in our profession. We all need to stand together and unite on this. Maybe the IBT will come around and see this situation for what it is...a complete sham and an outrage for all MidEx pilots. If pilots from other ALPA carriers don't stand behind MidEx and their pilots, this is going to set a nasty precedence for future dealings.

Enough is enough. MidEx needs solidarity RIGHT NOW. I encourage everyone to call their ALPA reps and find out what our National officers are doing to deal with this scourge of a situation.

I couldn't have said that better myself. The race to the bottom is accelerating rapidly. I'm tired of watching good guys get screwed by kids who are willing to do anything just to fly a shiny jet.

#37/hr might look good when you're 22 years old, it's far less attractive when you 45.

If it doesn't stop now, when will it. By the way, I don't work for Midwest, but I have a lot of friends there.

 

[airlinepilot]

What are the pay scales for Frontier right now compared to what Midwest has?

 

[Minimaniac]

Mr. EMB-175 driver,

If the leases were up on the MD-80s and the 717's, then Midwest could have extended leases or purchased newer aircraft and used MIDWEST PILOTS!

Do some research, and ask why Midwest lost the 717's. Boeing did not just magically take them away, and Midwest did not just give them back saying "no thank you, we found a cheaper airplane."

Once you understand why Midwest lost the planes (failure to make lease payments over a period of AND a failed attempt to muscle Boeing into accepting reduced lease rates), you will understand how RAH came into the picture. Midwest lost their planes, and had a schedule to fly. RAH had 12 planes with no work. Desperation brought these companies together. Midwest management screwed themselves. The pilots, like always, were just faceless casualties. RAH pilots are flying RAH aircraft, because doing otherwise would be a concession of our scope. If you want to hate me for upholding MY scope and not giving up an inch of it, then fine. It seems like holding on to original scope is NOT the industry norm anyhow, and I can see how that makes me different.

By the way, IF Midwest had just paid their leases, or stuck with the first agreed upon reduction in lease payment with Boeing, then Midwest would still have Midwest pilots behind the controls of 717's. I want Midwest pilots to fly their own metal at their own airline. But they lost their planes through management idiocy. If you use my company's metal, you are going to use my company's pilots. Get your own planes, and I would have been happy to see the Midwest flying disappear from the lines here.

 

[Minimaniac]

From the JB message board:

They ended up buying Midex, but seem to be uninterested in merging senority lists.

IBT 747 is interested in merging the seniority lists. What they want to do is get all 5 lists merged at once with every airline's input. Midwest wants to force the issue quickly.

If Midwest rushes through the process, they stand to gain a better outcome of integration if RAH appears uncooperative in the eyes of the arbitrator. What Midwest is losing, however, is the chance to use their leverage in an overall combination of lists. YX will not have a voice in the Frontier integration if they try to beat down the Teamsters now, and the truth is getting access to the F9 Airbuses is the only way YX pilots will get to keep the pay they are used to in the near future. But, if everyone at YX is happy being limited to the Embraer for the next 10 years, then by all means force the issue.

The Frontier/RAH deal is almost complete, but there are still a few steps to go until RAH will have actually acquired F9. Until then, IBT cannot complete any f9 integration. What the IBT wants is for YX to wait for another month so that substantial negotiations can take place, and so that all parties can talk with FULL knowledge of where RAH is going, what the fleet plan will be, what each separate seniority list looks like, etc. It seems more advantageous to barter a position on a total list, not just a partial one.

Personally, I think each integration should be handled separately, in the order of acquisition. That means Mokulele comes first. If those guys were to drag out arbitration, I hope everyone understands that it would not be possible for RAH to talk integration with YX until we knew exactly what the combines Mokulele/RAH list would look like. Either way, YX would have to wait. But, YX would be complete before Lynx and F9. Individual integrations could take years. A joint integration between all five airlines could be completed in a year or less.

 

[likeitis]

IBT 747 is interested in merging the seniority lists. What they want to do is get all 5 lists merged at once with every airline's input. Midwest wants to force the issue quickly.

If Midwest rushes through the process, they stand to gain a better outcome of integration if RAH appears uncooperative in the eyes of the arbitrator. What Midwest is losing, however, is the chance to use their leverage in an overall combination of lists. YX will not have a voice in the Frontier integration if they try to beat down the Teamsters now, and the truth is getting access to the F9 Airbuses is the only way YX pilots will get to keep the pay they are used to in the near future. But, if everyone at YX is happy being limited to the Embraer for the next 10 years, then by all means force the issue.

The Frontier/RAH deal is almost complete, but there are still a few steps to go until RAH will have actually acquired F9. Until then, IBT cannot complete any f9 integration. What the IBT wants is for YX to wait for another month so that substantial negotiations can take place, and so that all parties can talk with FULL knowledge of where RAH is going, what the fleet plan will be, what each separate seniority list looks like, etc. It seems more advantageous to barter a position on a total list, not just a partial one.

Personally, I think each integration should be handled separately, in the order of acquisition. That means Mokulele comes first. If those guys were to drag out arbitration, I hope everyone understands that it would not be possible for RAH to talk integration with YX until we knew exactly what the combines Mokulele/RAH list would look like. Either way, YX would have to wait. But, YX would be complete before Lynx and F9. Individual integrations could take years. A joint integration between all five airlines could be completed in a year or less.

The midwest pilots are actually using those years of experience to see that the IBt's plan is retarded and will play into managements hand. IBT's concerned only about cost and isn't looking at the big picture. I agree that the Midwest pilots could get a better outcome with a 5 airline merger but when you have management and the F9 pilot group against merging the seniority list. Well let me tell you it ain't going to happen or if it does it'll be 5+ years down the road and by then the Rev's little experiment will be TU. So where does that leave the midwest pilots?