The Big FLOPS now 100% RAYTHEON Thread

[dime line]

As I said...I am talking about the ones on this board like DimeLine and his type... (see search post on his type of obsession hate mongering posting)
(BTW...It's mid-morning,I rarely drink, it seems as though the reading has doubled and I'm not talking to myself after all, and I stand by my posts)

Dude you really do have a hard on for me, Thats great. But please enlighten me on my agenda. What is your agenda? for the longest time your anti-any union and now your "sending in a card and voting yes" and sounds like your gods gift to FLOPS. So why am I the bad guy? Oh and by the way its not hard to figure what Frac company I work for.....idiot.......

AND if the union vote goes through first, after they've stalled, it costs them nothing to play the "We wanted to give you huge raises but the union won't let us" game. This is not speculation, this is HOW IT WORKS in the incoming union/mgt game. They do it ALL the time in other ops.

No sh...t, wow you figured that out all by yourself, Nothing comes easy


Surely no one here will be fooled by what is to come.

Well now I think for the past few years you have been fooled, hmmm interesting, now all of a sudden your sending in a card



They've had years to fix this....When I lose faith in them (and I generally tend to have faith that people can be basically good sometimes), then there is seriously something wrong.

Wow sounds like gods gift to FLOPS again, if you think something is wrong, well then call the press, Voice of Reason thinks something is wrong.

They WON'T offer one because they DON'T plan on paying up for long if at all.

Well now, you and I do agree on things, but I have always said, if you come here send in your card, so yes, I think that could be my agenda

 

[Phoenix]

Epiphany

Exactly what I have been trying to say here, but some feeled compelled to twist it into "agenda".

What people need to realize is that they said "a NEW compensation package"...NOT a BETTER one! If they find they can't drag it out, mark my words it will be something they get in there quick to LESSEN compensation, while saying "look how great this is for the go forward plan".

AND if the union vote goes through first, after they've stalled, it costs them nothing to play the "We wanted to give you huge raises but the union won't let us" game. This is not speculation, this is HOW IT WORKS in the incoming union/mgt game. They do it ALL the time in other ops.

Surely no one here will be fooled by what is to come. They've had years to fix this....When I lose faith in them (and I generally tend to have faith that people can be basically good sometimes), then there is seriously something wrong.

Well Voice,

You can't expect the pilots on this board to completely discount all the anti union banter that you have posted here in the past. I think its great that you have finally had a pro union epiphany and understand what we are trying to do here. I hope your efforts to help us achieve a positive vote will be a passionate as your anti union efforts were.

Phoenix
CONTRACT ASAP

 

[Voice Of Reason]

AND if the union vote goes through first, after they've stalled, it costs them nothing to play the "We wanted to give you huge raises but the union won't let us" game. This is not speculation, this is HOW IT WORKS in the incoming union/mgt game. They do it ALL the time in other ops.

Surely no one here will be fooled by what is to come. They've had years to fix this....

I should correct myself, and point out that pay changes can't happen at ALL once a vote has been CALLED for, not official...this is something that ANY aviation company and lawyer is WELL AWARE of in the Railway Labor Act...so Flops knew ALL ALONG that their supposed "new compensation package" would not come to fruition as it is not legal to change pay either direction once a vote is called for (and they've had years to do these things).

Do they think people will really BELIEVE that they wanted to give us great new package (suddenly) when a vote had ALREADY been called for prior to the announcement of the announcement about new pay.

ALSO...they've been said to be meeting with Flexjet, who, incidentally is supposed to make an announcement the next day. Consisting, I imagine, of "See what the union did to them? You can't get that big raise if you call for a vote" as they delay, delay...

They are in cahoots, and it is NOT a good thing

 

[gunfyter]

Voice,

Its really hard to figure out your position. You seem to be all over the map....


I do not believe any pilots of any group are out to get you.

The only possibility of anyone being in cahoots... well my conspiracy theory would be Raytheon and NJ management. been some interesting aircraft deals....

You know WoodBridge does not like manufacturers competing with it. Yet big orders from Woodbridge were recently announced.

 

[Apeman]

This is my understanding, but a company cannot "take away" any pay/bene's once the vote has been called for. They are free to increase compensation/bene's at any time. So I fail to see what difference it makes when they announce this new package. The deal is to see what they offer, and IF, I said IF--they come out with industry standard, great---we take it AND the union, and keep it in place. If they come out with squat, then we take the union and negotiate. Either way---I am for the union. I want what is best for myself, and everybody at flops (pilots). Why people are opposed to it--I don't understand. I'll GLADLY give my %1.5 for dues, which include health ben's, and off the bat gain over $2,000.00 a year. And it only get's better!! To have the rules that NJA has..........Hopefully that day is getting nearer!

 

[XPGuy]

I should correct myself, and point out that pay changes can't happen at ALL once a vote has been CALLED for, not official...this is something that ANY aviation company and lawyer is WELL AWARE of in the Railway Labor Act...so Flops knew ALL ALONG that their supposed "new compensation package" would not come to fruition as it is not legal to change pay either direction once a vote is called for (and they've had years to do these things).

Do they think people will really BELIEVE that they wanted to give us great new package (suddenly) when a vote had ALREADY been called for prior to the announcement of the announcement about new pay.

ALSO...they've been said to be meeting with Flexjet, who, incidentally is supposed to make an announcement the next day. Consisting, I imagine, of "See what the union did to them? You can't get that big raise if you call for a vote" as they delay, delay...

They are in cahoots, and it is NOT a good thing

That is incorrect in general principal... also, to nail the coffin shut on this issue in FLOPS's case, the company already announced a new pay compensation package that will be released by January 31st - since they made that announcement BEFORE the NMB was petitioned, they cannot now take it away after for the very reasons you posted.

We have the best labor lawyers in the country waiting to sue if they try it. Considering this company's track record in RLA lawsuits, I doubt they'll try it. Besides. The company experienced 20% pilot attrition last year, and it isn't slowing down. New-hire classes were lied to the last 3 months of last year about what the flex schedule they must abide by is, and since forcing them to not only sign training agreements but which domiciles to live, they couldn't get anybody to hire on. So what did they do? They removed the training agreement. Now, we can't even keep new-hires. We've had several new-hires from the last 3 months of last year already quit.

This company will not keep pilots at all if they try to not give the raise (as miserable as it will be) they have promised.... they also will do nothing but ensure victory for the pilots should they try it.

Know your facts before you post crap like "ANY aviation company and lawyer is well aware of in the RLA".

The 1108 and our union drive leaders know what they are doing. That should be obvious by now.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Um...

That is incorrect in general principal... also, to nail the coffin shut on this issue in FLOPS's case, the company already announced a new pay compensation package that will be released by January 31st - since they made that announcement BEFORE the NMB was petitioned, they cannot now take it away after for the very reasons you posted.

We have the best labor lawyers in the country waiting to sue if they try it.

Know your facts before you post crap like "ANY aviation company and lawyer is well aware of in the RLA".

The 1108 and our union drive leaders know what they are doing. That should be obvious by now.

Know MY facts?
Are you telling me you are naive enogh to think that Raytheon has no CONCEPT about RLA laws, and that they are SINCERELY planning to give the pilots boatloads of $$$ on their own? I want some of THOSE drugs!

Where are YOUR "facts" that they EVER said we were getting a BETTER compensation package????
They said that AROUND 1/31 there would be an ANNOUNCEMENT about a "New Compensation package" . They did NOT say BETTER compensation package, and on top of all that, they carefully worded it to say "announcement about" which is hardly a guaranteed offer! They claimed to be seeing what they "could afford", etc.

It was always my understanding that once the union came in (whether to be called for or which) the pay could not be changed AT ALL until there was a contract... That's why so many companies have pulled this crap in the past and try to blame their alleged attempts at sudden raises on the union "not letting them"...

 

[hammer2]

Know MY facts?
enogh "...

mispelled

 

[AeroBoy]

mispelled

Uh, dude, you misspelled "misspelled." Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[dime line]

yo hamr this aint no english clas, yo

 

[XPGuy]

It was always my understanding that once the union came in (whether to be called for or which) the pay could not be changed AT ALL until there was a contract... That's why so many companies have pulled this crap in the past and try to blame their alleged attempts at sudden raises on the union "not letting them"...

Yeah, I know that was your understanding... which is why I said know your facts before you spout stuff like that off. You are incorrect in that understanding.

How do I know? Because the Union drive leaders when they were forming this drive had that very question at the top of their mind (like any organizing force would do - it is an easy thing to assume the company would blame the union on not being able to provide a raise, it is a classic union busting tactic that works for the misinformed employees) addressed that very issue about a year ago and found out from the BEST Union lawyers in the country (the same ones that sued the pants off of Raytheon and forced them to settle for uber amounts of $ for the 5 RTA pilots that got fired) and got a $2000/hr lawyer answer to that very question.

You saying you know more than they do about the RLA? Now, as I originally said, that doesn't mean Raytheon wouldn't try it - and why I also said if they do, our lawyers will be waiting to file suit over it.

To answer YOUR questions, no, I don't think Raytheon DOES plan on spending 1 dime on this pilot group unless forced - that's why the Union has my card.

p.s. If you are an Options pilot you should have gotten the latest Blackberry anti-union letter from Bob Tyler where he did mention the "better compensation package" that will soon be announced... the same letter that threw conflicting information and more FUD about "possibly" returning Tier 3 domicles "if pilots can get to their airports by 10 am".

Just the FACTS, m'am. - Sgt. Friday

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Funny

mispelled

:smash:

I think it is obvious that it was a typo on my part, but as a man of only one word, I'd think that you could do better than the above in your attempt at calling me on it.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Again....

p.s. If you are an Options pilot you should have gotten the latest Blackberry anti-union letter from Bob Tyler where he did mention the "better compensation package" that will soon be announced... the same letter that threw conflicting information and more FUD about "possibly" returning Tier 3 domicles "if pilots can get to their airports by 10 am".

I rec'd nothing of the sort. If you are referring to the one dated 12-30-05 from RF with the "Update," it was worded (EXACTLY):

"PS – this is a late breaking addition direct from (B.T.) –
We’ve made considerable progress in developing our new comprehensive pay, domicile, and quality of life plan for all crewmembers. More work needs to be done. Our guiding aim is to provide each of you compensation comparable to others in our business while remaining true to our business plan. Additionally, we must assure we’ll have a secure place to work both now and for years to come. We intend to announce the Flight Operations’ plan no later than Tuesday, January 31, 2006. Thanks again for your many suggestions and your continued support."

In NO place did it say "better" or the WHO in reference to "others in our business."
So where is the memo I missed?

 

[Hobbes]

Voice of Reason - do you fly for Flight Options?

 

[XPGuy]

Yeah, he's behind.

Jan. 7th anti-union letter from Bob Tyler

E-mail Titled: (no title... that Master's in communications he holds showing through)

Attached letter, dated January 4th titled: "Comm to Flight Options"

In it, it said:

"I think a number of pilots left in 2005 not only to seek other flying opportunities but because they were concerned about their future here. I’m extremely hopeful when our crewmembers see our changes to pay, domiciles, and benefits by the end of this month, they’ll stay. We’ve worked hard to find a balance between what you deserve and staying true to our business plan. I can’t wait to share the future changes with you."


So, I think we can put that to bed - it's semantic anyway.

Look, i'm not attacking you. I do however find this vote extremely important, and just want to make sure that people know the facts and understand appropriately what is on the table, and what will happen should the vote pass or fail for us Flight Options pilots. That's all. Thanks.

 

[choppengruven]

Voice of Treason

If your posts intent is to help us get a positive vote please stop. Your misinformation will only hurt the vote drive. If you truly care you will stop with the misinformation attacks. Otherwise you are just a misinformed management plant or a misinformed line pilot. Nonetheless you are just plain misinformed. Do yourself and the rest of us a favor and go to http://www.ibt1108.org
and educate yourself on what a union really is and the pros and cons and quit spewing uneducated redorick here. My fear is that a fence sitter or even a curious pilot thinking of getting on the fence might read your posts and be turned away. If you "really" do care about the drive and are a union supporter you would do these things. However if you are just a company shmuck you will be retaliating to my post I'm sure.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Yeah, he's behind.

Jan. 7th anti-union letter from Bob Tyler

E-mail Titled: (no title... that Master's in communications he holds showing through)

Attached letter, dated January 4th titled: "Comm to Flight Options"

In it, it said:

"I think a number of pilots left in 2005 not only to seek other flying opportunities but because they were concerned about their future here. I’m extremely hopeful when our crewmembers see our changes to pay, domiciles, and benefits by the end of this month, they’ll stay. We’ve worked hard to find a balance between what you deserve and staying true to our business plan. I can’t wait to share the future changes with you."


So, I think we can put that to bed - it's semantic anyway.

Look, i'm not attacking you. I do however find this vote extremely important, and just want to make sure that people know the facts and understand appropriately what is on the table, and what will happen should the vote pass or fail for us Flight Options pilots. That's all. Thanks.

I'm behind???? It was an email dated just the one day prior, and it was sent in the now usual form of sending to the BB as an ATTACHED doc.
XP, call me blind but I am STILL not seeing where it says BETTER compensation package, just "changes." Am I going to be the only one not surprised when 1-31 rolls around????

THAT needs to stop as well (BB memos as attachments)...Since when do BB emails suddenly have to come as attached docs, rather than cut and pasted off their doc onto a regular email. Anyone who has opened this doc on your computer, go ahead and run Adaware on it. I ran Adaware RIGHT before opening that doc, cleared everything, then opened the doc, THEN ran it again. SEVEN new CRITICAL objects and a number of tracking cookies, JUST from doing that. Anyone else get that?
Maybe IBT needs to get their IT dept involved in seeing what Flops is up to.

I see now that maint is now back to Flops...Anyone want to be that Flops is about to be "merged" with Flex in the same way the RTA / Flops was? Another way to delay the union I presume.

As for Choppengruven...WTF are you BABBLING about? If you don't want to read my posts and just babble nonsense, do yourself a favor and block me...It's easier to NOT read that way and spout off crazy cr@p.

 

[RNObased]

Thanks for helping make my point....

ANYWAY...all I am saying (condensed version) is that once this union is voted in officially, and the organizers make themselves known to everyone, I hope that everyone makes sure that the representation isn't "lopsided" and put solid people in Officer positions, AND most importantly, the NEGOTIATING TEAM. That's all...nothing sinister...

That is assuming you have solid people to take those positions.... After reading your openings rant, fueled by tequila I hope. I'm not sure there are anyone there to do that gig....... It is up to you at FLOPS, not NJA to get a good deal....

Most of us at NJA don't care.....

 

[Voice Of Reason]

The Winner of This Year's Darwin Award goes to...CHOPPENGRUVEN

However if you are just a company shmuck you will be retaliating to my post I'm sure.

Choppengruven, you are seriously a piece of work. The only crazy rhetoric is your ridiculous "outing" of yourself, because either you have run your unprofessional mouth to the wrong person, or you truly believe your dellusions about me being mgt...OR you want a free welfare ride from dues paying union members, because you WANT to get fired, and are under the impression you'll live large since you put your name out there. If anyone if being counter-productive, it is YOU, trying to turn it into the Choppengruven Show, while the people who are REALLY doing the work and ORGANIZING the union aren't half-witted enough to make themselves public at this juncture.
THEY are the "heros" NOT YOU, so stop with the drama, and quit making unprofessional posts all over the place. THAT will get you fired, not union activity, motormouth.
Go to AA where your dramatic, narcissistic speeches will be appreciated. (and I don't mean American Airlines)

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Emails

Did anyone else run adaware after opening the email doc from BT on the 7th?

Also, check your spam folders for whatever email you gave IBT, because that's where mine was... You can input their website in your mail controls so it doesn't get blocked ...