Thats All I Can Stands...

[Immelman]

The problem is that taxation rates go far beyond the % the IRS & state take away. The low wage earner spends much more income (as a % of total) on everyday needs... all these items are taxed (sales), and their manufacture/shipping/distribution/retail sale are taxed as well!

Or, better yet.. if I make 1/2 mil a year and don't spend frivilously, but do "live good", maybe 15-20% of my income goes to things like cars, travel, recreation, entertainment, dining, groceries, etc.

Conversely, if I make $20K and have a kid & wife to support, a LOT of my money (perhaps all after taxes and housing cost) is going into goods and services. My point? Those goods and services have been taxed in every way shape and form, affecting their price... the price is, of course, passed on to the consumer.

As such, I don't think the argument of a poor person facing a 9% federal tax rate vs 33% for a rich person holds much water.

By the way, what will the rich guy do with his/her excess income? Invest it wisely in securities, bonds, real estate, etc... that is taxed too... when they sell it (aside from property tax)!

 

[DIRT]

NEWSFLASH!!!!!

The person making 1/2 a mil a year obviously has a marketable skill which he has probably obtained through hard work and effort the guy making 20k per yr probably sits on his couch in the evening and drinks beer and watches wrasslin, so indeed the person making more money should enjoy the fruits of his or her labor. I am all for a flat tax I am tired of working my a$s off only to pay a bunch of taxes while I see guys my age with a bunch of snotty kids running around and paying less taxes !!! I am all for everyone paying a flat tax that is a fair tax system, a graduated scale stiffles capitalism.

Noam, that is real easy to say until you work 70 or 80 hours a week to have nice things and instead see the extra money STOLEN from you just because the federal governments decides you make more so you should be taxed at a higher rate.

 

[Snakum]

the guy making 20k per yr probably sits on his couch in the evening and drinks beer and watches wrasslin

Evidently, you haven't yet met any of the tens of thousands of educated professional software developers, engineers, mid-level manufacturing managers, and pilots who have been laid off and have been forced to work at Walmart or Home Depot for $7.50 per hour after their unemployment ran out and they still have a family to feed.

God forbid you rabid Capitalists ever need to suck the government teat to ensure your kids don't go to bed hungry. We'll see what tune you're singing then.



Minh

 

[bart]

tens of thousands of educated professional software developers, engineers, mid-level manufacturing managers, and pilots who have been laid off and have been forced to work at Walmart or Home Depot for $7.50 per hour after their unemployment ran out and they still have a family to feed.

If they had six months to find a job, and they are working at Wal-Mart for $7.50 an hour, then they have been lazy while on the dole. Or they had no marketable skills to begin with.

Your argument is ridiculous. Show me someone who is "forced" to work at Wal-Mart for $7.50, and I will show you someone that has consistently made poor choices.

 

[DIRT]

Snakum,

Your right I guess fortune does play into it but I sure as he!! would not be a compaining whiner about it. I would for instance try and get additional education so I can again have a mareketable skill or if all else fails get 2 x 7.50 USD per hour jobs and work 80 hours per week. This is not just rhetoric from some pampered "rabid capitalist" I have had to work like a field hand for peanuts and I am sorry but when these guys get there next "professional" job can you please pay me the F*ck back for all the taxes I pay now and conversely if I by some stroke of misfortune find myself unemployed I will not resort to "sucking on government teat"

Dirt

 

[Immelman]

My point precisely about the 20k income vs 500k income: Implementing a "flat tax" will not be so flat with all the other taxes in place that make our society run.

If you overhauled the entire system so it were flat... I'd have a different view. I'm just saying that making an across the board flat income tax without changing anything else, as was proposed in the last couple election years, won't be very fair.

If you want to talk taxes what about trade..why the hell did 'W' cave in on the steel tariffs? What were those, the last tariffs we had? Last time I checked it was things like trade duties that kept the dollar strong and jobs from going overseas. How many dollars does it take to buy a single Euro now?? The first time I went overseas I bought Euros for 90 cents each.....

Let's face it, when it comes to certain issues (particularly exporting jobs), I see no difference between George W and Clinton. This GATT/NAFTA/WTO crap is a real threat to our future way of life, and all the big boys are in on it.

 

[Birdstrike]

That wasn't so simple

Flint4 quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...If you are stupid you think the rich don't pay their fare share of taxes...."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lighten up there Flinto, I didn't say that. My point was that SOMEBODY's gotta pay the bill since it's a given that that SPENDING WILL NOT BE CUT BY ANY CURRENT POLITICIAN IN SIGHT. Now, go from there.

Yes, the rich pay their fair share of taxes but they and everybody else on the teat may need to PAY MORE since revenue is not rising fast enough to cover the deficits. Spending cannot be cut enough because ENTITLEMENTS are steadily rising.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda cut spending isn't political reality, especially in an election year. I would support a flat tax that covers the bills. Absent that, I don't see any way out of this mess short of raising taxes on everybody.

And don't tell me to cut spending, that just ain't gonna happen. So if you don't raise taxes, what are you gonna do??

 

[likeitis]

According to Bart I guess I made some bad decisions. I went to college after high school followed by flight school. While in college I got myself a commercial drivers license and drove pretty much any piece of heavy equipment you can name. I taught for 2 years and spent 1996-2003 flying for a few different airlines. While I was at my last airline I worked part-time at Home Depot because I was building a house(contracted most of it myself) and to educate myself on the particulars.

Well in April I was furloughed. Soon after I went and got my type in the 737. Since before my date of furlough I have been sending applications and resumes to airlines and nonaviation related companies. In all I have sent out 100+ resumes for aviation companies and 50+ applications for nonaviation related companies. These are positions in warehouses, retail, driving truck, etc. I have yet to get one phone call for an interview. Even in positions in where they have told me that my qualifications are impressive. Especially all the truck driving positons. I have been told that they won't hire me because of my pilot background and my furlough status. It's not like these positions are paying 15/hour. Most are in the 7.50-12.00 range and I can't get an interview because of of what I was doing prior.

Now I'm not writing this for anyone's pity because of prior planning and my wife's work we are doing fine. I'm just trying to point out that sometimes it can be even harder for someone who is going from a position like a pilot to even getting a job at wal-mart. Every HR person I talk to think that I'm joking about trying to get a job with them and they tell my that they aren't willing to take the chance because it's obvious I won't be there long. I ask how they know this about a person that they have never met or talked to prior to me waking them up from their afternoon nap. Christ if some of these places would have hired me back in April when I applied I would have been there almost a year by now. Most likely longer than many of their employees. Oh well, I guess I'll go back to beating my head against the wall, it will do me just as good.

 

[enigma]

Likeitis,

Man, start your own business. I'm seriously looking into it myself just in case I find myself out of a flying job. Heck, the way aviation is going, I may just get feed up and quit if I manage to develop a good enough business deal.

Don't let it get you down,
enigma

 

[flint4xx]

This is a generic comment, not addressed to anyone in particular. If you take offense, then you will be very upset this November.



If you cut taxes, people (citizens) spend. Spending generates revenue for the governement. Why do airlines lower prices? To get more people to fly. It IS simple.

A democrat will spend the earned revenue on social programs. A republican will buy an aircraft carrier. Which option makes this a better country...? One creates dependence, the other independence. For example...

A man stands on a street corner panhandling for change. You can give him money thereby encouraging him to stand there and beg for more, or you can not give him anything, and maybe he will get a job and care for himself. Which does him more good?What would you teach a child to do in this scenario?

And before anybody thinks you can guilt me into giving a sh!t about this looser, you need to review Darwins' theory of natural selection. I already pay enough in my tax bracket to support several of them. If your heart bleeds for them then join the peace corp.

"If you aren't a liberal in your twenties, you don't have a heart. If you aren't conservative in your forties, you don't have a brain." Sir Winston Churchill

Socialism:
Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Capitalism:
An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

Everybody needs a little reminder about what made this country the one that everybody wants to come to, or be like.

One last little tidbit, look at the back of a $1 bill. See the unfinished pyramid? It symbolizes that this country is a "work in progress" That was obvious to the founding fathers over two hundred years ago. You can effect change on election day if you don't like it the way it is.