Thanks United! Southwest increases Love Departures

[SWA Bubba]

Oh really Chest?

Ancient history....look at the latest profit sharing statements? Nobody "is behind on their rent" and nobody gets better treatment from an airport because of something a decade earlier.

Glad to hear you point out that Southwest doesn't get special treatment from airports 'cause of who we are. Perhaps you might point that out to Flopgut.

Bubba

 

[Flopgut]

I agree...and IMO, too much emphasis is placed on the competition between American and Southwest, rather than between Tarrant and Dallas counties. What is lost is Fort Worth and Tarrant county's insistence on DFW straddling Dallas and Tarrant county lines in order for Fort Worth to capture roughly half the tax revenue generated from airport operations. Attempts to thwart Southwest at Love failed in the courts, so little wonder Jim Wright of Fort Worth tried to severely limit Southwest's potential siphoning of tax revenue back into Dallas county via Love Field operations.

Good post. The two cities had to go along with DFW. Ft Worth could not opt out. FTW is the key stakeholder that has lost the most. It was hardly frivolous for Wright to do what he did, and frankly he could have been more restrictive. That was at a time when the CAB TAC deregulation Texas and Uncle Sam were overlapping. And SWA slipped through the cracks.

Today, the FAA states you have to have a "functional relationship" with a municipality. Apparantly it's been interpreted in some places to mean secondary airports' gates should be common use, or have plenty of common use gates. Why the hell that wasn't what was done with DAL in the first place, I don't know. Other than the obvious of course: protect and aid SWA, all these years.

 

[Flopgut]

Ask any airport manager about which airline pays tts bills. Practically every airline except SWA has fallen way behind followed by bankruptcy, sometimes multiple times. They get to keep their gates. I would call that special treatment!

Walmart pays its bills too.

 

[Flopgut]

I cannot see a valid point there. Should there be an entry fee to get into the airline biz for those who weren't around on 1925?

There is. Sometimes it's $, but not always. You might have to build more gates than you want to. Sometimes it's what you do in a community as an employer. Sometimes it's pain and anguish. In any case, youve been on a deferred payment plan. I wouldn't wish you any of the pain and anguish, but this free ride BS in Texas has got to stop!

 

[redflyer65]

Walmart pays its bills too.

I love it in people turn up there nose at Walmart.

Only 4 out of the 12 most richest people in the world on that list and a revenue of 500 Billion dollars annually.

Definitely not a success story but carry on Flop with your re-writing of history.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Good post. The two cities had to go along with DFW. Ft Worth could not opt out. FTW is the key stakeholder that has lost the most. It was hardly frivolous for Wright to do what he did, and frankly he could have been more restrictive. That was at a time when the CAB TAC deregulation Texas and Uncle Sam were overlapping. And SWA slipped through the cracks.

Uh, sorry, Flop but what exactly has Ft Worth actually lost? Ever? Please tell us specifically.

DFW Airport is one of the largest and busiest in the entire world, and is a HUGE friggin' source income for both Dallas and Ft Worth--collectively in money spent by travelers in the airport and surrounding area hotels/restaurants, hundreds of millions in wages paid to tens of thousands of employees who work at the airport and spend their money at home in those two cities, along with other ancillary income (rental cars, etc., etc., etc).

Today, the FAA states you have to have a "functional relationship" with a municipality. Apparantly it's been interpreted in some places to mean secondary airports' gates should be common use, or have plenty of common use gates. Why the hell that wasn't what was done with DAL in the first place, I don't know. Other than the obvious of course: protect and aid SWA, all these years.

Uh, it was done at Dallas Love in the first place, Flop--I can't imagine why you don't know, other than your continued head-in-the-sand intransigency on the situation. Well, that and your unwavering belief that the entire universe colludes to protect and favor Southwest, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Up until very recently, there were literally dozens of unused gates at Dallas Love, available for use by ANY damn airline who wanted to use them. Southwest used 16 gates, AA and CO used two each, sporadically or subleased. The rest of the gates sat empty for decades, because no airline wanted them. None.

It's only been recently that anyone has actually given a crap at all about any of this--when American Airlines forced an artificial limitation of 20 gates total to protect their overall Dallas monopoly. Southwest still used the same 16 damn gates that we used for decades, but now you cry foul and say we should give some of them up to be "fair"? WTF?! Where was your outrage when American limited them for no reason, other than their own greed? Why don't you lobby to eliminate that stupid and arbitrary limitation? Then there'd be plenty of gates for everyone who wanted some.

Oh, I know--then you wouldn't be able to blame Southwest. Bummer for you, Flop.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

There is. Sometimes it's $, but not always. You might have to build more gates than you want to. Sometimes it's what you do in a community as an employer. Sometimes it's pain and anguish. In any case, youve been on a deferred payment plan. I wouldn't wish you any of the pain and anguish, but this free ride BS in Texas has got to stop!

Free ride?

Always paying your bills, employing hundreds if not thousands of locals in each community, giving back to that community in other ways (RM houses, other charities, volunteer work), not to mention greatly stimulating and expanding air travel among ALL airlines in those communities (documented by the government)... that's your idea of a free ride?!

Good God Flop, you're so overcome with irrational hatred, that you say the stupidest things. How does your head not explode?

Bubba

 

[The Prussian]

Good post. The two cities had to go along with DFW. Ft Worth could not opt out. FTW is the key stakeholder that has lost the most. It was hardly frivolous for Wright to do what he did, and frankly he could have been more restrictive. That was at a time when the CAB TAC deregulation Texas and Uncle Sam were overlapping. And SWA slipped through the cracks.

Today, the FAA states you have to have a "functional relationship" with a municipality. Apparantly it's been interpreted in some places to mean secondary airports' gates should be common use, or have plenty of common use gates. Why the hell that wasn't what was done with DAL in the first place, I don't know. Other than the obvious of course: protect and aid SWA, all these years.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

.........................."It's got a built-in sauce rack!".......................................

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Always paying our bills.....love it!

Thats a great Slogan Spirit warriors....sounds like somebody is running scared dragging out old digs! Garys gonna drag you through the same courts we did in spite of your contract demands....

NAW...that wont happen....like I said in 2000 when Delta was best compensated and SWA was still not paying pilots for getting into holding patterns

 

[outerlimits]

Always paying our bills.....love it!

Thats a great Slogan Spirit warriors....sounds like somebody is running scared dragging out old digs! Garys gonna drag you through the same courts we did in spite of your contract demands....

NAW...that wont happen....like I said in 2000 when Delta was best compensated and SWA was still not paying pilots for getting into holding patterns

Are you saying SWA is going to lie for bankruptcy ?

I have not followed the stock , has it been crashing ? By chance if the stock is doing well, could you be setting yourself up for a lawsuit with false rumors ?

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Always paying our bills.....love it!

Thats a great Slogan Spirit warriors....sounds like somebody is running scared dragging out old digs! Garys gonna drag you through the same courts we did in spite of your contract demands....

NAW...that wont happen....like I said in 2000 when Delta was best compensated and SWA was still not paying pilots for getting into holding patterns

...and ended up furloughing how many?

Take a look at two pilots, one hired at DL, the other at SWA, in say 1992. Who made more in 2000, since 2000, etc?

No slogan here, just fact and common sense.

 

[canyonblue]

NAW...that wont happen....like I said in 2000 when Delta was best compensated and SWA was still not paying pilots for getting into holding patterns

Where do you get your information, The Onion? Congatulations on winning the "Stupid post of the day" award. You can collect your prize, a 7 day all expences paid trip to Peachtree City. :beer:

 

[canyonblue]

No slogan here, just fact and common sense.

That's frowned upon at Delta.

 

[Flopgut]

Free ride?

Always paying your bills, employing hundreds if not thousands of locals in each community, giving back to that community in other ways (RM houses, other charities, volunteer work), not to mention greatly stimulating and expanding air travel among ALL airlines in those communities (documented by the government)... that's your idea of a free ride?!

Good God Flop, you're so overcome with irrational hatred, that you say the stupidest things. How does your head not explode?

Bubba

I think you're the one with your undies in a bind. I'm a lucid and harmonious poster. I always am clear that I wouldn't wish the worst on SWA (or anyone) and I don't think furloughs are anything to be celebrated. You don't like hearing certain things so you lash out. Get over it.

You know a lot of folks in Houston don't even know it was a SWA launch city? You're just here to exploit a larger airport that taxpayers made a large investment in. $72m is the price tag for the parking garage you want built for your new terminal. That's initially coming out of Houston Airport System general funds. Thanks. A parking garage has to be duplicated so you can have your own private FIS. Keep these numbers in mind: 1.6 billion to Houston economy, 10,000 jobs, and $130 ticket to Bogota. You're going to have to hit those numbers, and somehow live down a cozy, enabling relationship with a very marginal mayor, in order to call this a success.

 

[FlyinGuy]

I sure am glad that Jeff Smisek is such a trustworthy chap and that he would never try to influence politicians for the betterment of his company.

 

[redflyer65]

The only serious item that Flop can come up with at Hobby is a damn parking garage. Think about that for a minute!

Hey Flop, any idea how much money the Houston Airport Authority will clear on that deal in the end? How many millions? at what $10-15/day per vehicle? I wish I could get some of that parking garage income.

Your parking garage outrage is ridiculous and makes you look like a fool.

 

[Flopgut]

Red: You're missing the point. Taxpayers are having to duplicate the expense. IAH was built to handle all the houston international traffic. It's ridiculous and it's never going to trickle down or in anyway make it back to the average taxpayer. It's bad policy. It's not part of a functional relationship. Things like this are not done in other states where FIS are duplicated. In most of those instances the facilities at the secondary airport are common use. You've managed to build the opposite!! You're set to lock everybody out (again!) into an unworkable situation (using one gate).

 

[Cometman]

Red: You're missing the point. Taxpayers are having to duplicate the expense. IAH was built to handle all the houston international traffic. It's ridiculous and it's never going to trickle down or in anyway make it back to the average taxpayer. It's bad policy. It's not part of a functional relationship. Things like this are not done in other states where FIS are duplicated. In most of those instances the facilities at the secondary airport are common use. You've managed to build the opposite!! You're set to lock everybody out (again!) into an unworkable situation (using one gate).

Get a life. I cannot believe you are an airline pilot. Don't you have anything better to do than to keep posting your stupid remarks?

 

[SWA Bubba]

Red: You're missing the point. Taxpayers are having to duplicate the expense. IAH was built to handle all the houston international traffic. It's ridiculous and it's never going to trickle down or in anyway make it back to the average taxpayer. It's bad policy. It's not part of a functional relationship. Things like this are not done in other states where FIS are duplicated. In most of those instances the facilities at the secondary airport are common use. You've managed to build the opposite!!

Actually, Flop, it's YOU that's missing the point, the bigger picture, and the difference between your anti-SWA bias and what the city of Houston actually wanted. As usual.

The city of Houston is building the parking garage as a money-making venture--it will be paid for in a few years, and then a pure cash cow for the city after that. Cities build a lot more crap than that, for a lot less in return. Why don't you get that? It's a win for the city; taxpayers are NOT losing anything here; it's cash-positive for the city.

And can you give me one other example, anywhere in the country, where consumers/citizens are harmed by having more choices in competition? I don't think so. Houstonians, especially those on the south side, LOVE having the ability to fly out of a closer, smaller, easier-to-navigate airport. And yet, YOU want to take that away from them, so that they have to drive further, and go through more hassle at IAH, and pay more, just so your airline makes the revenue. And then you have the nutsack to pretend it's somehow in their best interest?! That's rich.

You're set to lock everybody out (again!) into an unworkable situation (using one gate).

Ha! Yet another thinly-veiled implication about Love Field. You "forgot" to respond to where I pointed out that you don't know what you're talking about. For like the 50th time. You just ignore the facts, and repeat your ignorance.

HOW did Southwest "lock out" anyone at Love Field? Tell me, Flop. As I said (and you conveniently ignored), there were literally dozens of empty gates at Love, for literally decades, that NO airline wanted to use. Then American Airlines forced a 20 gate limit (essentially the gates that airlines were currently using), and now you're going to bitch about Southwest?

If anyone "locked everybody out" of Love Field, it's American Airlines, not Southwest Airlines.

But you already knew that, didn't you?

Bubba

 

[humveedriver]

http://m.bizjournals.com/dallas/blo...erica-announces-dallas-to-austin-flights.html

http://m.bizjournals.com/dallas/blo...court-to-gain-access-to.html?ana=yahoo&r=full

Latest and greatest on Love Field gate and flight competition.

 

[HowardBorden]

You know a lot of folks in Houston don't even know it was a SWA launch city? You're just here to exploit a larger airport that taxpayers made a large investment in. $72m is the price tag for the parking garage you want built for your new terminal. That's initially coming out of Houston Airport System general funds. Thanks. A parking garage has to be duplicated so you can have your own private FIS

You seem to be the only one complaining! Everyone else seems to be happy about getting an upgraded facility.

"We've combined our knowledge of the Houston flying public with our considerable expertise in airport parking," said Casey Wagner, senior vice president and managing principal of the Houston office of Walker Parking Consultants, which designed the new garage and is assisting in construction management.
"That's one reason we'll have a climate-controlled sky bridge connecting the garage to the terminal, so Houston drivers won?t be exposed to the weather when crossing between the two."
This may very well be the most exciting time in the history of Hobby Airport,"says Airport General Manager Perry J. Miller. "We've seen a dramatic transformation take place at Hobby Airport over the past five years with a new lobby, baggage claim area and ticket counters. Now, passengers are going to enjoy a new terminal building and expanded parking capacity."

Keep these numbers in mind: 1.6 billion to Houston economy, 10,000 jobs, and $130 ticket to Bogota. You're going to have to hit those numbers, and somehow live down a cozy, enabling relationship with a very marginal mayor, in order to call this a success.

Do you mean that SWA is bound by numbers produced by a City of Houston based impact study? If so, please explain how Southwest Airlines is legally bound by a study they didn't fund or request? I'm sure they will probably come close to those numbers because I'm sure Houston commissioned a realistic study, but every time you mention The City of Houston's independent report you portray it as a promise SWA made to Houston. Clearly it was an estimated impact study commissioned and funded by Houston not a promise from Southwest.

However, a study commissioned by the Houston Airport System found the new terminal would have a positive economic impact on Houston by creating 10,000 new jobs and pouring more than $1 billion into the local economy.

 

[redflyer65]

Do you mean that SWA is bound by numbers produced by a City of Houston based impact study? If so, please explain how Southwest Airlines is legally bound by a study they didn't fund or request? I'm sure they will probably come close to those numbers because I'm sure Houston commissioned a realistic study, but every time you mention The City of Houston's independent report you portray it as a promise SWA made to Houston. Clearly it was an estimated impact study commissioned and funded by Houston not a promise from Southwest.

However, a study commissioned by the Houston Airport System found the new terminal would have a positive economic impact on Houston by creating 10,000 new jobs and pouring more than $1 billion into the local economy.

Howie, you nailed it.

The Houston City Council numbers were brought up directly to Gary Kelly during his Q&A. I watched it live. He stated exactly what Southwest would bring to the table regarding jobs. That's ALL he could comment on. The one dude that was in the low income area of Houston kept pressing on 'thousands of jobs'. Gary held his ground and told him exactly what SW would bring because that's all he's responsible for.

Flop seems to be in the same bizarro world that guarantees XX thousand jobs. The other jobs will come from construction and services like vendors and taxies. Gary never guaranteed anything other than what growth Southwest would have with the new terminal. Would you expect anything more?

 

[HowardBorden]

Red: You're missing the point. Taxpayers are having to duplicate the expense. IAH was built to handle all the houston international traffic. It's ridiculous and it's never going to trickle down or in anyway make it back to the average taxpayer. It's bad policy.

Again, you're just flat out wrong, as usual. Your assertion that expenses paid toward building any additional international facilities at Hobby will never "trickle down" to the average taxpayer is fallacious.

Southwest draws on data from Campbell-Hill Aviation Group in its application that concludes that Southwest's competition will reduce fares in its four proposed Houston - Mexico markets by an average of $117 round-trip, 25 per cent below current fares and stimulate an additional 273,000 passengers annually across the four markets. The combination of these reduced fares and resulting passenger stimulation will generate $33 million annually in consumer fare savings, claims the report.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29...unch-low-fare-link-to-belize-in-latin-growth/