Test

[Timebuilder]

I think you're right, Tony. Worship is when we stop doing things for us, and do something specifically for God.

It bothers me when there is conflict in a church about what type of music is used. The young ones like the up beat stuff, and the older ones want the hymns.

There is a lot of good material on music choice for worship, and why some types are appropriate for worship, while others are not. The problem with much of what is called "contemporary Christian music" is that is uses the same kind of music that dishonors God to try and honor Him. The idea of simply substituting lyrics as a method of making music acceptable for worship is not sound, and is the basis for a great amout of discussion in music ministry circles.

The question for worship music is one of it's nature. Is it Godly or worldly? Does it honor God, or does it feed our sensual nature? It's an important distiction to understand.

You might find this link helpful:

http://bibletrigger.faithweb.com/ccm-article.htm

 

[Northern Lights]

The question for worship music is one of it's nature. Is it Godly or worldly? Does it honor God, or does it feed our sensual nature? It's an important distiction to understand.

Exactly. I remember some radio preacher once saying "Just because you put christian words the devil's music, doesn't make it christian."

I fear that we are raising a generation of kids that are more interested in entertainment than true worship and study of God's word.

I remember reading about a new church that has different aeras to worship. For example part of the church was a coffee bar, where you drink your half caf, non fat, no whip, cappucino while singing and listening to a sermon! There was another section where there was art supplies and you could draw/paint your feelings while at church. That all seems a bit too worldly and sensual to me.

 

[mnixon]

and i quote from my pops who is an episcopalian priest "Some of the best Christians ive met have not step foot in a church." Just because you go to church doesnt mean your a good christian. Most people are the biggest hipocrits (sp?) ever. All the good lord asks is that you praise him in day to day life, not just sunday. No denomination is better than an other. In all reality, the whole christian movement is a good progress, but in my personal opinion it is being obscured by all the different denominations. Case in point...my roomate is a devout church goer at one of the huge churchs in town...ya know the one, to see the "preacher" you have to watch the video screen and follow the bouncing dot karaoke screen hymns (which i might add im not sure i understand, just anyone can get up there and talk and influence many?) yet he is convinced that my other roommate and myself will go to hell because im episcopalion and my other roomate is catholic! He was talking to his girlfriend one night and i heard, "dont worry, theyll be judged in their own time and theyll find that we were right all along!" What in the hell is that about. arent we both praying to the holy trinity? so why am i going to hell? because i continue in the lords prayer past the point of "But deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen." and you dont? It is ridiculous. These are the people who ruin faith and religion for the rest of us. Who am i to judge you because i believe differently than you. Sorry for ranting....just my 2 cents for what its worth

 

[Timebuilder]

and i quote from my pops who is an episcopalian priest "Some of the best Christians ive met have not step foot in a church." Just because you go to church doesnt mean your a good christian.

You're right. Going to church does not make you a good Christian.

That said, Christians who conform to God's teachings in the Bible, and I am willing to concede that doing so is "good," DO usually obey the instruction to gather together with other believers for praise, worship, instruction, and fellowship.

Don't let "pops'" observation sway you into thinking that attending a church of believers is not a hallmark of obedience to God.

All the good lord asks is that you praise him in day to day life, not just sunday.

See above. Those elements are not required for salvation, but all believers are directed to comply with the behavior that God finds pleasing among His followers.

No denomination is better than an other.

This is true on it's face, unless the "denomination" in question is not following the teachings found in the Bible, and has either ignored or added to those teachings. In that case, you should remove yourself from that flock immediately, because they are not following the Good Shepherd.

yet he is convinced that my other roommate and myself will go to hell because im episcopalion and my other roomate is catholic!

Just so you are not mislead, there is one word, one doctrine, and one savior. If you follow another doctrine, are you following Christ? The entire Bible is His word. Be advised.

He was talking to his girlfriend one night and i heard, "dont worry, theyll be judged in their own time and theyll find that we were right all along!" What in the hell is that about. arent we both praying to the holy trinity? so why am i going to hell? because i continue in the lords prayer past the point of "But deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen." and you dont? It is ridiculous.

If you let yourself get caught up in the fixation on one line of a prayer, you have missed the point. That said, that prayer is an indication of a broader difficulty that you face, and that is the other teachings which are not of God, and the teachings of God that are ignored by some groups. Here's what they, these other groups, are doing: they are fashioning for themselves a belief system that contains Christ, but does not follow His word. Following Christ, which is “believing in Him,” is the key to salvation. If you don't follow in belief, you will not be saved. Get it? If you will not be saved, then where will you be? Your roommate has reached a valid conclusion based on the Biblical teaching of Christ. If you have a beef about that, you need to take it up with Christ, not your roommate.

If you follow Christ in belief, you must therefore adhere to His teachings, and reject other teachings.

These are the people who ruin faith and religion for the rest of us. Who am i to judge you because i believe differently than you. Sorry for ranting....just my 2 cents for what its worth

What is it worth? It is worth a great deal of contemplation about where you stand and what you believe. No man should judge, but he SHOULD communicate the truth of the Bible, which many people regard as "judging." Start with 2Timothy 3:16-17, and ask your roommate just WHY he believes as he does. He will show you in scripture, or with help from another brother in Christ, the scripture that is the basis of belief regarding how God wants us to worship, and what he has said about the various teachings that some hold to be God's, which are in reality the teachings of Man.

Now, what of Episcopalians? Are they adhering to the teachings of God? Have a look at this:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/121/54.0.html

or this:

http://www.gctelegram.com/news/2004/may/3/story3.html

Regarding that, this is Romans 1:20-25

"20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen."

So, I'd think long and hard about what God might think about those who follow a doctrine of Man instead of His doctrine, the doctrine of God.


Be aware, and be ready.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Ah, now I get it.

It was a test to see if any thread can be turned into a religious discussion.

 

[Timebuilder]

Maybe so, but the thread starter and the hijacker (apparently appropriately dressed in his avatar) are two different people.

As I have always said, if someone asks, albeit indirectly, I'll answer.



Hey, how's the new house?

 

[mnixon]

I'm more than willing to be open to new ideas! I judge no man on race creed or sexuality. As far as the homosexuality issue, who really cares just as long as they do the job that they were elected to do. Would you not go to work for a company because the ceo was a homosexual? As far as the roomate goes, are you agreeing with him in the fact that we are going to hell because of our beliefs? If so i feel sorry for you that you actually put yourself on a pedestal higher than others who do not believe the same things. God created man in his vision and we are all the same like it or not. Buddhist, christian, jewish, black, white, gay straight, male, female. Yes we will be judged one day, but will the lord deny me the rights of my neighbor because I dont pray to the virgin mary, or because a bishop of my church is a homosexual? I think not! I think you have valid points but i wish you could open your eyes to others views. You may not agree with them but it will give you insight into others which is more powerful than any sermon...day to day interaction and praise.

 

[glasspilot]

Test






Notice Post #1!

P.S. Consider this thread "un-hijacked"

 

[skyking1976]

The Right Rev. Minh should be here any minute now...

Hey Typhoon, love the new avatar. Is he riding the barberpole in that thing?

SK

 

[Timebuilder]

As far as the homosexuality issue, who really cares just as long as they do the job that they were elected to do.

We can have a very long discussion about this from the civil side or the Biblical side, but both agree that our government representatives should be "moral people," and this clearly departs from the general understnding of morality as we know it from God and our culture.

The short answer is "God cares," and so do moral people.

Would you not go to work for a company because the ceo was a homosexual?

Probably not, since I would be partnering with someone who is knowingly and purposefully living a lifestyle that is abhorrent to God.

As far as the roomate goes, are you agreeing with him in the fact that we are going to hell because of our beliefs?

Let me spell this out for you.

Being saved from hell is through belief in Christ.

Belief in Christ starts in our hearts, and is demonstrated by our words and actions, by how we conform ourselves to His teaching, and the examples of behavior we set for others while doing so.

Now, if you are following doctrines that contradict His word, the Bible, and you support a church hierarchy that is allowing sin to flourish, then are you "believing in Him?"

I think the only answer can be "no," and you are not saved from hell.

If so i feel sorry for you that you actually put yourself on a pedestal higher than others who do not believe the same things.

I am not on a "pedestal." I am a lowly sinner, but one who has struggled to conform to His Word, and received the saving grace of Christ. It is God who is hurt by those who "do not believe the same things." God cares for them FAR MORE than I do. But since He cares, so do I, as an obedient servant. I am directed to continue to correct misunderstandings about what provides salvation and what does not, what honors God and what angers Him.

God created man in his vision and we are all the same like it or not. Buddhist, christian, jewish, black, white, gay straight, male, female. Yes we will be judged one day, but will the lord deny me the rights of my neighbor because I dont pray to the virgin mary, or because a bishop of my church is a homosexual?

Deny you "rights?" No. Rights are that which we have are codified according to the constitution. When we depart from being a "moral people" by asserting rights that are not from God, we are lost as a nation.

He WILL, however, deny you salvation. Yes, He will.

I think you have valid points but i wish you could open your eyes to others views. You may not agree with them but it will give you insight into others which is more powerful than any sermon...day to day interaction and praise.

My friend, I am 100% conversant with those "other views." It is this "up close and personal" experience that makes my faith all the stronger.

I can see the evil that people are doing every day, just I am solidly aware that I too am a sinner, and that the evil in the world has increased in its frequency and boldness in my own lifetime. It has flown aircraft into buildings. It has spread a deadly virus among millions. It has destroyed the family for purposes of lust and personal satisfaction. It has driven God from our schools and from our hearts. It is strong, and you must be strong to resist it.

And you would be wise to embrace the free gift of salvation that He is offering to you, because the days grow short.