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Temporary Certificate

Sphincter Boy

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I recently renewed my CFII certificate and the temporary just expired. Anyone care to give me some advice on what I can do? Do I need to call Oak City or the local FSDO who actually issued the certificate.

SB
 

zulua320

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Call the FSDO, they can issue you a new temp certificate. They also should be able to call Oke city to check on your status. Dont' worry -- you're not the first person this has happened to -- those permanent certificates are late all the time. Just don't do any instructing until you have a valid temp. in your hands.

Z
 

bobbysamd

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New Temporary

I'd just go to FSDO and tell them what happened. They will issue a new temporary on the spot for you.
 

TWA Dude

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zulua320 said:
Just don't do any instructing until you have a valid temp. in your hands.

Actually, you needn't worry about that. You don't have to have a CFI certificate on your person to instruct. I know this from when I renewed mine online and had to mail in the old one to get the temp.
 

OtterFO

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In 1997 when the feds rewrote part 61, they made it a requrement that the instructor certificate be carried by the instructor like a medical, CPL/ATP. Has it been changed again?
 

avbug

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14 CFR 61.3(d)(1) clearly requires that the holder of a flight instructor certificate have that certificate in their physical possession (or readily accesible in the aircraft) when exercising the privileges of the certificate. The same is true for a pilot certificate, medical certificate, ground instructor certificate, etc.

If TWA Dude was instructing after having mailed-in his flight instructor certificate (and did not have a temporary certificate in his possession), he was in violation of the FAR.

A temporary flight instructor certificate expires upon the expiration date shown on the certificate, receipt of the permanant certificate, or upon receipt that the certificate/rating has been denied or revoked. See 14 CFR 61.17(b). If the holder of a temporary certificate has not received the permenant certificate, application for a new temporary certificate should be made prior to the expiration of the temporary one. This should occur no later than 120 days following issuance of the temporary certificate.

In most cases, the FSDO will work with you. If you obtained your certificate from a designated examiner, go to the DE to obtain a new certificate. Note that the FSDO or the DE is NOT obligated to provide you with a new certificate. It's at their discretion. Seldom will an inspector or examiner complain, but don't expect it. Ask for it, but don't expect it.

If you obtained the certificate through a DE, let the DE chase down your permenant certificate. He or she filed the paperwork; it's the examiners job.

Note that there is no such thing as a CFII certificate. There is a flight instructor certificate, and you may hold an instrument rating for either airplanes, helicopters, or powered lift on that certificate. The "I" portion of the common-use abreviation "CFII" is for a rating on a certificate. It does not represent a different type of flight instructor certificate; there is only one flight instructor certificate, with a variety of ratings that can be placed upon that certificate.
 

TWA Dude

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avbug said:
If TWA Dude was instructing after having mailed-in his flight instructor certificate (and did not have a temporary certificate in his possession), he was in violation of the FAR.

Admittedly it was several years ago that I did this online CFI renewal so I did some rechecking. Here's a quote from the Gleim online renewal site:

https://www.gleim.com/Aviation/firc/processing.php

Mail the required ACR documents to Gleim Publications, Inc.: Before you mail these documents, please make a copy of your notarized Official Identification Document and both the front and the back of your current CFI certificate. These will serve as proof of your qualifications until you receive your temporary CFI certificate from Gleim.

This reads that you needn't have the actual CFI certificate, but merely proof that you posess one.

CFR 61.3(d)(1) reads:
(d) Flight instructor certificate. (1) A person who holds a flight
instructor certificate issued under this part must have that
certificate, or other documentation acceptable to the Administrator, in
that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft
when exercising the privileges of that flight instructor certificate.

I added the bold print. So according to Gleim, a photocopy constitutes "acceptable documentation" during renewal. As I now recall, that's the way Jeppesen handled it as well when I renewed with them four years ago.
 

zulua320

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TWA Dude,
I was considering mailing my CFI ticket to Gleim when I did my last renewal, but called the FSDO to see if they'd have an inspector in my neck of the woods anytime soon -- anyway, he (the FSDO inspector) said that Gleim was actually giving out bad info -- a photocopy is NOT considered "documentation acceptable to the Administrator" (for some odd reason), and an inspector going by the letter of the law could find you in violation. That being so, he also said that the inspector would have to have an extremely small picture to give anything other than a verbal warning.
FWIW,
Z
 
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TWA Dude

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zulua:

Well, you gotta do what you gotta do. From two different FSDOs you'll get three opinions! If it's a big concern for you, take advantage of the three month window you get for renewing your CFI and make the inconvenient trek to the nearest FSDOand present them with your online FIRC completion certificate and that'll be that.
 

avbug

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Gleims' information is correct, in part. However, a photocopy of your former certificate is not adequate to satisfy the requirements of the administrator. The reference to qualify this discussion will be found in the Federal Register Preambles found in Volume 62, Number 65, dated April 4, 1997:

"FAA Response: Based on public comments that argue the proposed section could create difficulties in situations where flight instructor certificates are mailed in upon completion of a renewal course, the FAA has decided to add the phrase "or other documentation acceptable to the Administrator," which would permit a flight instructor to use a copy of a graduation certificate from a CFI refresher course and a copy of the completed application for renewal to meet this requirement. "

In Volume 62, Number 146, on July 30 of that same year, the FAA further clarified that a copy of the application is not necessary to meet the requirement for "other documentation acceptable to the administrator," as specified in 14 CFR 61.3(d)(1):

"The FAA notes that the preamble to the final rule states that under paragraph (d) the phrase "other documentation acceptable to the Administrator" would permit a flight instructor to use a copy of a graduation certificate from a CFI refresher course and a copy of the completed application for renewal to meet the requirements of that paragraph. However, the FAA has determined that the latter document is not necessary. Therefore, a copy of a graduation certificate from a CFI refresher course, without the application for renewal, is acceptable documentation for the purpose of meeting the requirements of paragraph (d)."

AC 61-65D further states that " during the renewal process, when an FIRC graduation certificate is used for renewal and the applicant's flight instructor certificate is being processed for renewal, a copy of the FIRC graduation certificate is considered acceptable documentation by the Administrator until the applicant receives his/her permanent flight instructor certificate. Another example of ". . . or other documentation acceptable to the Administrator . . ." [per § 61.3(d)], is a copy of an applicant's completed and signed FAA Form 8710-1 that was submitted when making application for renewal."

Note that all of this must be accomplished prior to expiration of a flight instructor certificate. Once the certificate has expired, a practical test is required for reinstatement. AC 61-65D states "a practical test is required in the exchange of an expired flight instructor certificate. A designated pilot examiner or an ASI shall not reinstate expired flight instructor certificates without a practical test."

I would certainly never take an action that affected my certification strictly on the basis of a commercial company such as Gliem or Jeppesen. It's far better to know where you stand based on the regulation, than what "gleim said."
 

Sphincter Boy

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The problem is that this was a renewal from the FAA based on the fact that I am a company IOE check-airman and was renewed on that bases only. I just hope the guy even remembers me coming in and doing this.

SB
 

bobbysamd

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CFI Renewal

It makes no difference on which basis you were renewed. You were renewed but now your temporary has expired. Sh*t happens. Don't wait any longer. Just go to the FSDO which issued your temporary in the first place and you should be taken care of. Nine times out of ten, FSDO will work with you. You may suffer glares and dirty looks for waiting so long.

Now, if you talking about the MCO FSDO, that's another story........ :rolleyes:
 
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avbug

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Sphincterboy,

Bobbyamsand is correct. Your certificate is technically expired. However, the FAA General Aviation Inspector's Handbook specifically states (don't have the reference or the time to get it right at the moment) that your instructing privileges are valid during the time the FAA is processing your renewal paperwork, until you receive an answer from the FAA. The technical error here is that while instructor privileges generally are still valid, the temporary has expired, which makes a case for reinstatement, rather than renewal. Again, most inspectors will look the other way and sign out a new temporary for you.

In this case, documentation acceptable to the administrator will include a copy of the documentation showing your service as a company check airman. Essentially, always plan on keeping a copy of all the paperwork you submitted, and this paperwork must be with you when acting as an authorized instructor.

If you were acting as a check airman under 121 or 135 and will be instructing in that capacity only, then you may do so under an ATP without need for the flight instructor certificate.
 
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