Technique for briefing an approach?

[FR8mastr]

This shows how anal this industry has become. does the non flying pilot not have a chart in front of him? what approach, chart number, chart date, as published.. done. Obviously if you are not flying a standard profile that would be covered. But because we all have to pretend reading off a piece of paper makes us safer just read the whole thing for your interview

 

[FlyaGuppy]

Very well said FR8master. This is not rocket science folks. Both of you have the plates. Look at them. Discuss anything that might be non-normal, or any special procedures. Other than that, I don't need to tell you the frequency, inbound course, or DH. It's right there in front of you.

 

[TonyC]

The safety investigation board revealed...

The copilot who was not flying said he felt uncomfortable with what he saw, but assumed that the Captain knew what he was doing, so he said nothing...

Meanwhile, the Captain didn't realize that he had forgotten to call for that particular item, and would have responded to a prompt from the copilot...

==========================

When you brief an approach, you set the expectations for the entire crew, and you build a baseline from which to compare your actions. You build confidence in the other crewmember(s) and allow them to back you up along your intended course of action. The moment you deviate from what you brief, whether intentional or not, they can query you as to your actions. Either you changed your mind, or they saved you from messing up.

There is usually more than one than one way to skin a cat - - fly the arrival, fly the approach, configure the airplane, descend to MDA, etc. Tell the other guy what your plan is, and he's part of the team. Keep it to yourself, and he's just an observer making radio calls.

 

[Pickle]

ShyFLyGuy:

Right place, right time. Interview well and very blessed/lucky. BTW, I am only typed in the 767, I have never flown it.

 

[Captain X]

Unfortunately, FR8Master and Flyaguppy every proficiency check I have observed or line check I have conducted on a crew inevitably led to a course not being set correctly or the wrong frequency set as primary b/c of exactly what you suggest.

Our airline conducts "standardization rides" on an ongoing basis and saw this as one of the problems. Hence the reason why we crosscheck chart data and date, freqs, courses, and altitudes on an approach.

I'm sure our airline is not the only on that has or had this problem.

You don't need to brief every letter on the chart but at a minimum make sure both crew members are looking at the same plate, have the correct course and navaid set, and know where the airplane is supposed to be and where is ain't supposed to be.

For instance:

"Chart 11-3, ILS 14, dated 27 Jun 03
Inbound course is _____
Primary Navaid is _____
Initial Altitude is _____
MDA or DA is _____
Missed Approach Point is _____
General missed approach instructions (first alt, first turn)

Any questions/comments?"

Some pilots I fly with like to include/insure they have the required mins for the approach, what the runway environment should look like (i.e. lighting systems -- although I could never tell you which system is which just by looking at it), highest charted obstacle, MSA.

Some guys brief the runway turnoff but I think this is a poor idea b/c I've seen one too many pilots nearly loose control of the aircraft or blow tires b/c they were trying desparately to make the turn-off they briefed.

 

[FR8mastr]

Captain X, if you would look at my post again I did say "what approach, chart date and chart number" If these things agree then you are flying the same approach and all the other numbers you mention will match. I also said if you plan on doing something opposite of standard procedure you would brief that. For this to work obviously one has to look at the chart.

 

[DorkProp]

Our standards manual specifies how to brief an approach. Follow this basic format and you will appear professional in an interview, which is your goal. As for refining a briefing and arguing over what items are more important, leave that for later.

"This will be the ILS 28R at XYZ, page 11-1, April 9 2003. The localizer frequency is 111.8, inbound course 280. Minimum intial altitude is 2800, and we'll cross BEANS at 2720 on the glideslope. DA is 1330, and the minimum visibilty required is 1800 RVR. Elevation is 1196, TDZ is 1128. MSA aroung XYZ VOR is 2400 in all sectors. In the event of a missed approach we will fly runway heading to 4000, then a right turn direct SNEEZ. RADAR and DME are required for this approach. Any questions?"

Just use a format similar to the one above in an interview, covering the major points of the chart. In real life every approach is different and every flight environment requires variations to the standard briefing. Good luck.

 

[FlyaGuppy]

Captain X, I agree it would be nice to cover those things, but even when talking... talking... talking... it always seems people ask, "what was the final approach course again?" or "what is the ILS frequency?" when we were cleared for the approach. Obviously they were not listening. I just believe if the approach brief moved from mundane reading of a chart to something more useful, the other pilot would be more attentive.

Things people always cover which they could figure out themselves:
- Frequencies, altitudes, courses, runway length, missed approach procedure.

Things people never cover which they probably need to know:
- How the approach will be flown, be it with/without autopilot, via FD, raw data/hand flown. Planned area of turnoff (turn off early? or let it roll and use light braking?). Non-standard procedures, such as maintaining a higher speed than the company profiles specify due to ATC requirements. MELed items which would effect the approach and/or landing. Plans for any increase in speed due to wake turbulence concerns, windshear expectations, etc.

 

[regionalcap]

Captain X.
You make very good points but I disagree with your statement about briefing the runway exit. It is very helpful especially when going into an unfamiliar airport. I have seen some f/o's use brakes and reverse without even having a clue where they want to turn off. I think it teaches good piloting skills to have a plan of action. Heck, some taxiways are unusable for larger aircraft. Wouldn't you want the first officer to know this ahead of time? I am not saying they have to slam on the brakes to make the taxiway just have a general plan.