Tech Questions: "Flight of the Phoenix"

[Savate]

Just saw this movie: had heard scathing reviews so thought it would be really bad, but it wasn't. Not as good as the original, but I thought it was an entertaining fantasy enough for the $4.

QUESTION:
The twin prop in the movie was started by the use of some kind of "shotgun shell" that was placed in a cylinder and used to fire off and start the prop. Had never seen this before. Does this "ignition" take the place of the magneto?

The film was fantasy, but this seemed to be a technical factor that wasn't.

Educate me please?

 

[darkvw]

black powder cartridge to power the starter

 

[JAFI]

It was a 1920s to 1940s system used to start the engine. I think the last aircraft (that I know of) to use the system was the Canaberra (sp?) Bomber.

 

[Big Duke Six]

That's correct, a big cartridge filled with gunpowder. It was fairly common. I think even the early KC-135's did "Cart Starts". Maybe some later jets too, anyone?

 

[Donsa320]

Just saw this movie: had heard scathing reviews so thought it would be really bad, but it wasn't. Not as good as the original, but I thought it was an entertaining fantasy enough for the $4.

QUESTION:
The twin prop in the movie was started by the use of some kind of "shotgun shell" that was placed in a cylinder and used to fire off and start the prop. Had never seen this before. Does this "ignition" take the place of the magneto?

The film was fantasy, but this seemed to be a technical factor that wasn't.

Educate me please?

I have a few thousand hours in the C-119G and I never heard of a cartridge starter ever being installed in a C-119. The early C-119's ("B"s and "C"s) had R-4360 engines and the later ones ("F"s and "G"s) had the R-3350 turbo compound engines. The original movie used a C-82 and had that cartridge starter episode in it also. The C-82 had R-2800 engines. That engine was used in many single engine fighters in WW2 and some may have had cartridge starters for use in the forward airfields where GPU's or battery carts were not always available. Whether the C-82 had the cartridge starter in it I cannot say...but with that engine it was remotely possible.
I think a low battery start would have been just as dramatic and a lot more plausible in the movie, IMHO.

As to how a cartidge starter worked in a piston engine, I do not know. I'm guessing it would spin an enertia starter. It had nothing to do with ignition, though, just a way to crank the engine absent the electric starter.

In jet engines though, the cartridge spun the engine fast enough and long enough to get a start. Quit impressive if they spun all 4 at once for an alert take-off at a SAC base. Lots a smoke, black powder I think.

~DC

 

[Donsa320]

http://www.sjvls.org/bens/bf010cs.htm

This link shows the Coffman starter operation.

~DC

 

[Donsa320]

I'm now told that Wilcats, Hellcats and Corsairs all could have Coffman starters according to a source of mine in the CAF (Commemorative...nee Confederate..Air Force.) <bg>

I hope this all helps explain things. I'm through now.

~DC

 

[avbug]

The C-119 used in the movie, flown to purchased from and flown to location by Hawkins and Powers, did not use cartridges for the start. That was pure movie.

 

[LearLove]

I believe the F-4 could be started this way also.

 

[DenverDude2002]

What did they do with the C119 used in the movie? Is it back in the US? i hope someone like the smithsonian picks it up, its a cool bird and hard to find.