Teaching/Learning Medical Classes

[minitour]

Okay, so here's how I understand it...

Class I:
You can exercise privelages of a private pilot for three years (depending on age), commercial pilot for one year, and ATP certificate for six months.

Class II:
You can exercise privelages of a private pilot for three years (depending on age), and commercial pilot for one year.

Class III:
You can exercise privelages of a private pilot for three years (depending on age).

Now, I've heard some people say that a Class I medical "downgrades" to Class II after six months (and Class II to Class III after one year)...but by definition, this simply isn't so.

Sure, you can't exercise privelages of an ATP certificate after six months, but you can still fly as PIC for another two and a half years (depending on age) if you aren't "being a commercial pilot," correct?

Just wondering if there's a reason it is taught by some (definately not all) that the medicals "downgrade" after a certain period of time...?

Also, how is it that a CFI teaching a Private pilot for an "advanced" rating (something that the PPL is rated for - ie simple singles) doesn't need a valid medical? I realize that he does not have to be "acting" as PIC, and therefore doesn't need a medical that way, but isn't he/she still exercising privelages of a commercial pilot certificate by being paid for his/her time?

-mini

PS - Since no one is looking at the other thread, just wondering if anyone has any suggestions for study materials for the FOI/FIA tests. I don't like the "memorize the answers" method, so while I'll be practicing on Gliem, I don't really want to "learn the test". Thanks again!

 

[pilotyip]

Does not downgrade

A first class medical is always a first class medical however part 61 only allows you to exercise the privileges of an ATP pilot for the six months after the date on the medical.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Just wondering if there's a reason it is taught by some (definitely not all) that the medicals "downgrade" after a certain period of time...?

Beats the heck out of me. I think that thinking of the certificate as downgrading or morphing is not only incorrect, but more confusing than the way it actually works.

Also, how is it that a CFI teaching a Private pilot for an "advanced" rating (something that the PPL is rated for - ie simple singles) doesn't need a valid medical? I realize that he does not have to be "acting" as PIC, and therefore doesn't need a medical that way, but isn't he/she still exercising privileges of a commercial pilot certificate by being paid for his/her time?

No. The FAA has had a long-standing policy of treating CFIs a being paid for =teaching= not for =piloting=. I think part of the reason is to avoid the loss of older qualified CFIs. That policy is reflected not only in the regulations about CFIs and medicals, but in many other regulations that treat "instructor" certificates, privileges, and limitations separately from "pilot" certificates, privileges, and limitations.

And it's not completely true that a CFI need a medical only when acting as PIC. A CFI needs the medical certificate that is appropriate to his crewmember status. So, for example, a CFII obviously needs a medical when giving instrument rating instruction in actual (has to act as PIC). But he also needs one when that student is under the hood, because the CFI is acting as safety pilot, which also requires a medical, vene if the safety pilot is only acting as SIC.

 

[minitour]

Beats the heck out of me. I think that thinking of the certificate as downgrading or morphing is not only incorrect, but more confusing than the way it actually works.
No. The FAA has had a long-standing policy of treating CFIs a being paid for =teaching= not for =piloting=. I think part of the reason is to avoid the loss of older qualified CFIs. That policy is reflected not only in the regulations about CFIs and medicals, but in many other regulations that treat "instructor" certificates, privileges, and limitations separately from "pilot" certificates, privileges, and limitations.

And it's not completely true that a CFI need a medical only when acting as PIC. A CFI needs the medical certificate that is appropriate to his crewmember status. So, for example, a CFII obviously needs a medical when giving instrument rating instruction in actual (has to act as PIC). But he also needs one when that student is under the hood, because the CFI is acting as safety pilot, which also requires a medical, vene if the safety pilot is only acting as SIC.

I copy ya on the PIC thing for the CFI and flying with a student in IMC or under the hood or in a complex plane, multi, etc...

What I'm not sure if I understand is...
according to the FAA a CFI is paid to "Teach" and not to "Pilot"? If thats the case, why does a CFI have to have a Commercial ticket appropriate to the category and class of the CFI ticket?

If you've got a reference in the regs or somewhere that'd be great!

And thanks for the feedback guys! Just wanted to check up on this. I appreciate the help.

-mini

 

[SiuDude]

If a CFI is using his ticket to "teach," then he need only have a third class medical. However, to excercise the priveleges of the CFI ticket, he must have a valid Commercial certificate.

 

[midlifeflyer]

What I'm not sure if I understand is...
according to the FAA a CFI is paid to "Teach" and not to "Pilot"? If thats the case, why does a CFI have to have a Commercial ticket appropriate to the category and class of the CFI ticket?

'cause the rules say so? 61.183(c) to be precise.

At some point the FAA simply decided that it wanted CFIs to have the piloting skill level of a commercial pilot. It wasn't always the case. At one time you could get a CFI certificate with only a private pilot certificate. I don't know what year the change went into effect, but there are probably some fairly old CFIs who still only have a private certificate behind it. Notice that 61.19(d) only says that a CFI must continue to have a "pilot certificate" without saying what type.

 

[minitour]

'cause the rules say so? 61.183(c) to be precise.

At some point the FAA simply decided that it wanted CFIs to have the piloting skill level of a commercial pilot. It wasn't always the case. At one time you could get a CFI certificate with only a private pilot certificate. I don't know what year the change went into effect, but there are probably some fairly old CFIs who still only have a private certificate behind it. Notice that 61.19(d) only says that a CFI must continue to have a "pilot certificate" without saying what type.

Well that makes a littlem more sense (the rule change). I just didn't get the whole pay for being a pilot/teaching thing.

Thanks guys! Much more clear!

-mini

 

[scuzzer23]

If a CFI is using his ticket to "teach," then he need only have a third class medical. However, to excercise the priveleges of the CFI ticket, he must have a valid Commercial certificate.

Your saying that a cfi can log PIC time, while getting paid to instruct, with a 3rd class medical. If you are flight instructing, you are a acting as commercial pilot because you pay less than the pro rata share of expenses, meaning you would need a valid 2nd class medical, right?

 

[SiuDude]

Your saying that a cfi can log PIC time, while gettingpaid to instruct, with a 3rd class medical. If you are flightinstructing, you are a acting as commercial pilot because you pay lessthan the pro rata share of expenses, meaning you would need a valid 2ndclass medical, right?

Wrong, 61.23

 

[scuzzer23]

In 61.23 (a)(3)(iv), it says you must hold at least a third class medical when exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate, except if the person is acting as the pic or is serving as a required crewmember.

Does this not imply that in that case you would need a 2nd class?