Teaching is a G1000/Avidyne

[ChiFlyer]

I am wondering what some other instructor’s experiences with teaching a new instrument student in a G1000/Avidyne are.

I’ve noticed right away that teaching a scan is very different than in a traditional 6-pack. It seems that showing the student the layout, Pitch instruments on the horizontal axis and Bank instruments on the vertical axis, and teaching them to scan the appropriate plane primarily while maneuvering is effective. I’ve also noticed that it much more important to emphasize Control-Performance in the new glass panels.

Systems, practical emergency procedures and efficient use of the system are all areas that are very important to the student but are not talked about in many publications. The Instrument Flying Handbook also doesn’t really offer much help in teaching the basics to new instrument students in a glass cockpit. Has anybody found any good resources; the only book I’ve found is the G1000 Glass Cockpit Handbook by Max Trescott but it seems it is more for somebody who is experienced and transitioning into a G1000. Is there anything else out there or are we on our own for figuring out effective methods in a G1000/Avidyne.

I would love to here about others experiences and what sort of methods people have with teaching inexperienced instrument students in a G1000/Avidyne.

 

[troy]

Cessna/King has put out the CD's for the G1000 for both Pvt and Inst instruction. We're selling them at the school for $199 (Inst cd's)

 

[RiddleEagle18]

ive got like 50 hours teaching in the g-1000 and I teach the scan exactly the same way as before. If you think about it it is still set up in a T shape. Airspeed--- Attitude--- Altimiter
--- DG---

Since in most peoples scan the VSI and turn cor. are only scanned every two or three passes then this basic scan still works great. But also how do we teach partial panel??? Or what happens when they get thier inst. ticket and they are qualified to fly steam guagues and they try to shoot an arc to the ILS??? So I have had to take 2 or 3 lessons in the steam guages and make sure they can do it the "old fashion way". The FAA needs to address alot of issues with these things. See ya

 

[troy]

When I teach students to turn witht the turn coord, I have them turn till the vector arrow is aligned with the mark (3 deg/sec) and then look at the bank indicator. Use the degrees of bank vs trying to fly the vector arrow. Works much better.

 

[ChiFlyer]

“But also how do we teach partial panel???”

Is partial panel as we know it (FAA PTS) obsolete for purposes of a glass panel cockpit? Sure you can pull circuit breakers for the AHRS and ADC but what are more realistic scenarios?

I would think teaching how to fly using the 3 steam gauges is more practical. Don’t get me wrong though, I think teaching students how to fly without the Attitude and Heading Indicators is very important. But teaching instrument system failures with G1000s are going to be very different and we shouldn’t be teaching as if we were in a conventional 6-pack aircraft just because that’s what they need to pass their checkride.

Comments and thoughts?

 

[RiddleEagle18]

do you guys pull the circuit breakers??? My memory is fogged but i thought I just read something about not pulling them? Either way who knows its all very cloudy right now. Another way I have heard of some guys doing it at my flight school was just to use the manual dim function and dim the PFD?? Hit the red button. Wow everything is great now. Anyways I'd also like to hear how some other guys teach it. Oh yea also the reason I teach them partial panel isnt for the checkride. Its for after they pass the ride, because after that they are legal to fly steam gauges what if they go partial in that? Just some thoughts. See ya

 

[ChiFlyer]

You can pull the circut breakers and it will boot back up fine in flight. You are suppose to keep the wings level while the AHRS loads up but it can find itself with even 15 degree banks. Manually dimming works great too, I do that when I want to teach them how to fly just using the 3 steam gauges.

I think the most important scenario to teach is an alternator failure in IMC, an hour away from anywhere you can do an approach (assuming you can't get out of IMC). I've been teaching to use the emergency backup power until you get close to an area where you can begin an approach. So you must fly only using the 3 gauges, compass and a timer. So then power everything up using your battery and you should have enough juice to do the approach.

This is a very unlikely scenario but will be fatal if encountered and not handled properly.

 

[paulsalem]

I did CFII instuction for about 250hrs in full avidyne aircraft. The avidyne makes insturment flying exteremly easy. Which is great for a pilot who allready has an instrument ticket. Bad for teaching.

The problem is the glass spoils you. If you have a giant moving map you won’t have much situational awareness if you’re flying with just a six pack and a nav com. The fact your mag course and wind velocity is displayed on the PFD at all times means you don’t need to learn how to determine wind correction. Just pull the Ground Track line underneath the cdi and your set.

Trust me I’ve seen these first hand, I was training instrument students in glass, and using a normal six pack Frasca 142, students would have to relearn everything in the sim. Thank goodness we had that Frasca, otherwise they would have been totally SOL.


What I'd recommend is getting yoru students into a 6 pack FTD and make him learn the tradional way also. Make sure he walks away being able to fly on a 6pack as well as glass. If you don't have access to an FTD just get MS Flight Sim and use that.

As for partial panel our school just dimmed the PFD on the avidyne. Problem is all your info except the VSI is shown either on the MDF or the standby steam gauges.

 

[blesko]

here's my opinion with the garmin/avidyne argument. The cirrus airplanes, in my opinion cause too much heads down time in the cockpit. The placement of the 430's can cause more spacial orientation issues. The G1000 does not require much head movement to either tune a nav/com freq. I've taught in the G1000 airplane for over 600 hours and flown with the Avidyne for a few hundred more. With all that being said, the key to BOTH systems is the ground time. Teaching the 6 pack is pretty easy, students eyes dont have to move. However, once they have to input a reroute if an IFR student or get info of the MFD, things get pretty busy. There is a document out there on the net that talks about guidance for DPE's in regards to checkrides. Cessna does not advocate the pulling of circuit breakers, just dimming the PFD only, however if the breaker is pulled, the AHRS will align even if the airplane is in a 60 degree bank. The system is great, just spend time with the airplanes plugged in. Garmin also has a sims available on their website. Its 3.95 for the G1000 sim and the 530/430 sim, I believe is free.

 

[NW_Pilot]

Yea it's about $4.00 but no way to order it unless you call then they tell you to contact a dealer hahahaha dealer tell you have to get it from garmin.

 

[JediNein]

To simulate some of the single unit failures, I cover the affected device with a printout. The print has a screenshot of a single unit failure.

I've also been experimenting with a full sheet vinyl cover-up. with holes cut for the various still-working instruments.

The IFR PTS requires an approach with the primary flight display(s) failed. As the glass is still new in many areas, it becomes the instructors responsibility to verify the DPE's knowledge. Otherwise, one might have a failure when it was not warranted, or a student that fails because they couldn't prove that their action was appropriate then got nervous and failed for something else.

Two examples, if the DPE wants to simulate a PFD failure only in the new Cirrus aircraft, he must leave the MFD as operational. The applicant should know to switch the MFD to the engine page for any power changes. In a G1000 aircraft, the PFD failure also means losing a COM unit. The DPE should watch for the applicant to switch to the secondary unit.

Pulling circuit breakers is not recommended by Garmin, the FAA, Cessna, Cirrus, and the rest of the manufacturers. If you are going to do it, and the rest of the instructors at the flight school does it, have maintenance put in place a program for circuit breaker replacement. The $50 for two replaced circuit breakers will be well spent someday when it is least expected.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[BushwickBill]

You can pull the circut breakers and it will boot back up fine in flight. You are suppose to keep the wings level while the AHRS loads up but it can find itself with even 15 degree banks. Manually dimming works great too, I do that when I want to teach them how to fly just using the 3 steam gauges.

I think the most important scenario to teach is an alternator failure in IMC, an hour away from anywhere you can do an approach (assuming you can't get out of IMC). I've been teaching to use the emergency backup power until you get close to an area where you can begin an approach. So you must fly only using the 3 gauges, compass and a timer. So then power everything up using your battery and you should have enough juice to do the approach.

This is a very unlikely scenario but will be fatal if encountered and not handled properly.

What Jedi said about not pulling circut breakers. At the cessna training course they brought this up about 10 times. Don't do it.

I had a private pilot nailing pattern A & B in one hour. It was pretty easy for the guy. Heading bug, big big horizon on the T.V. screen and a 182 stable platform made it super easy. My main concern was "what if this guy flys something with a 6 pack." Not so easy.

The biggest problem was getting students to look outside if it was a VFR flight. I had to discipline myself to look outside too. With the worthless TIS system that reports traffic "most of the time" people just stop looking for traffic. Scary stuff.

 

[ChiFlyer]

I'll have to look more into not pulling the circut breakers. We had someone from Diamond come in to train us on the DA40 and told us it was fine. Maybe it's a Diamond thing but I would rather trust the concensus rather than "some guy that came in".

For VFR I have found too that taking away the PFD/MFD by dimming it works well to teach them to look outside and not rely on the screens.

Regarding the circut breakers though, does everybody just not mess with them?

 

[dogismycopilot]

While the scan is similar (basic T configuration) the emphasis on how the information should be used is much different. I have had good luck using the control/performance method as opposed to the primary/supporting method of instrument scan. For example:

Establish 7-8 pitch attitude and power combinations in the Cirrus and teach the student that a given power setting at a given pitch attitude will usually result in an expected level of performance (back side of the power curve not withstanding). Using the huge attitude indicator to set a certain "pitch picture" and scanning the other flight instruments to measure performance allows an easy transition for the new instrument pilot. This method mirros what he or she did as a VFR pilot- look outside (pitch info) and scan inside momentarily to see how that pitch is working.

 

[Hadhafang]

I have only a couple of hours dual given in the G-1000 and about 1 hour in the Avidyne. They are great IFR systems, but are horrible for VFR maneuvers. There's just too much heads down time. The transition is easy for instrument pilots who already know how to fly the 6-pack. I agree with what some people have already said about using a different type of scan. I haven't instructed brand new instrument pilots since my flight school still uses the conventional panels for those students. If I did have new students I think that I would teach them a much smaller scan that relies somewat on periferral vision. If you think about it, you can almost stare at the center AI and see out of the corner of your eye what the TC, ALT, AS, VSI, and DG are doing on the display. Not that I am saying that they should stare at the middle, just that the scan is focused on a more central area than that of a 6-pack. I do think that the glass cockpits should not be used for teaching initial students BAI. Until glass is the norm, students must know how to use the steam gauges, whether they will ever fly them or not. Besides, by having a digital display of altitude and airspeed, it shows you exactly how far you are off on your numbers. This causes the student to try and hold the altitude exactly. Thus he overcontrols or focuses on his altitude because he is 20 feet too low.....and then 20 feet too high.... Nobody can fly that perfectly, especially in turbulence. Of course, that is why these airplanes are best flown with an autopilot and the pilot serving as a monitor. Anyway, those are just some of my observations and why I think the G-1000 and Avidyne should not be used for BAI and initial training.

I should say that I love the G-1000. It is a tremendous IFR system, and all the information and weather is a real help when you are IMC. It totally spoils you! I mean, the thing will fly a DME arc! By itself! Students these days have it so easy. Haha.

 

[BushwickBill]

I'll have to look more into not pulling the circut breakers. We had someone from Diamond come in to train us on the DA40 and told us it was fine. Maybe it's a Diamond thing but I would rather trust the concensus rather than "some guy that came in".

For VFR I have found too that taking away the PFD/MFD by dimming it works well to teach them to look outside and not rely on the screens.

Regarding the circut breakers though, does everybody just not mess with them?

Maybe it's a Cessna thing but the guys at the factory warned us about 10 times not to pull the breaker. No matter what. Not for training or for any reason. Said it would really screw things up.

 

[Alin10123]

What Jedi said about not pulling circut breakers. At the cessna training course they brought this up about 10 times. Don't do it.

I had a private pilot nailing pattern A & B in one hour. It was pretty easy for the guy. Heading bug, big big horizon on the T.V. screen and a 182 stable platform made it super easy. My main concern was "what if this guy flys something with a 6 pack." Not so easy.

The biggest problem was getting students to look outside if it was a VFR flight. I had to discipline myself to look outside too. With the worthless TIS system that reports traffic "most of the time" people just stop looking for traffic. Scary stuff.

Yea, that is pretty freaky. Also... i think that TIS only works if the other person has a transponder if i'm not mistaken. What if some dude flying VFR leaves his transponder on stby by mistake?

By the way... took a flight in a cirrus, that TIS is annoying sometimes. It was going off even on the ground and it would be going off 20x within the few minutes we were in the area of the airport. I preferred to look for the traffic manually for some reason. If there were non-pilot passengers i'm pretty sure they would've been freaking out with the constant "traffic traffic traffic".

Is there some way to turn that thing off? or mute it?

 

[ChiFlyer]

Yea, that is pretty freaky. Also... i think that TIS only works if the other person has a transponder if i'm not mistaken. What if some dude flying VFR leaves his transponder on stby by mistake?

By the way... took a flight in a cirrus, that TIS is annoying sometimes. It was going off even on the ground and it would be going off 20x within the few minutes we were in the area of the airport. I preferred to look for the traffic manually for some reason. If there were non-pilot passengers i'm pretty sure they would've been freaking out with the constant "traffic traffic traffic".

Is there some way to turn that thing off? or mute it?

There are a lot of limitations with the TIS. It is available from some approach radar sites across the country; mostly just around large cities. The radar sweeps every 5 seconds and then sends out the info to the TIS on the next sweep. So the information you are receiving is at least 5 seconds old. That’s why if you are doing steep turns or other abrupt maneuvers you will get a traffic alert at your position and then it will go away. The TIS does try and predict what the “intruder” is doing, if the “intruder” is straight and level it will do all right, but with VFR maneuvering it doesn’t really do too well.

Also the “intruder” aircraft must have an operating transponder for you to receive an alert. So if some VFR guy was flying with his transponder on stby he would not be reported.

The TIS also becomes more unreliable the farther away from the radar facility. If you’re more than 30 miles the TIS will report traffic with up to almost a half-mile error.

I’ve been telling my student not to rely on it and use it as a backup. When a target pops up they should try to find it but they must keep in mind there might be other aircraft that aren’t on the TIS.

You can turn the traffic alerts off. In the map page there is a TRAFFIC soft key that will turn the system off. I’ve never encountered what you are talking about though; there may be something wrong with the system.

If I’m wrong on some of this info please someone let me know but this is my understanding of how the system works. Hopefully I got it right.

 

[Alin10123]

There are a lot of limitations with the TIS. It is available from some approach radar sites across the country; mostly just around large cities. The radar sweeps every 5 seconds and then sends out the info to the TIS on the next sweep. So the information you are receiving is at least 5 seconds old. That’s why if you are doing steep turns or other abrupt maneuvers you will get a traffic alert at your position and then it will go away. The TIS does try and predict what the “intruder” is doing, if the “intruder” is straight and level it will do all right, but with VFR maneuvering it doesn’t really do too well.

Also the “intruder” aircraft must have an operating transponder for you to receive an alert. So if some VFR guy was flying with his transponder on stby he would not be reported.

The TIS also becomes more unreliable the farther away from the radar facility. If you’re more than 30 miles the TIS will report traffic with up to almost a half-mile error.

I’ve been telling my student not to rely on it and use it as a backup. When a target pops up they should try to find it but they must keep in mind there might be other aircraft that aren’t on the TIS.

You can turn the traffic alerts off. In the map page there is a TRAFFIC soft key that will turn the system off. I’ve never encountered what you are talking about though; there may be something wrong with the system.

If I’m wrong on some of this info please someone let me know but this is my understanding of how the system works. Hopefully I got it right.

Oh wow! So th at's how it works! It Sends up signals from radar sites. That's pretty amazing. That's another reason why students shouldn't be relying on that. Believe it or not, there's a ton of places without radar coverage. Then during a tour of an ATC facility a little bit ago there are also some sectors that have radars that are down. So relying on that system 100% is a big no no. It's always a habit for me to scan for traffic myself. If i ever fly one of these again with a TIS it could mean trouble for me if i break the habit.

 

[RefugePilot]

I got a job flying and flight instructing in a G1000 equipped 182 last year. Up till that time the most sophisicated machinery I had much time in had a VFR GPS and a single cylinder EGT.

Borrow the G-1000 DVD from the owner. In a few hours you will know your way around it. After a week or so off, you will forget which buttons to push to do "that" thing.

I did not attend the factory training and was not warned about the Circuit breakers so I used to pull them. I guess what i would do now knowing the issues, is to cover or dim the two PFD for unusual attitudes and compass work using the backup instuments.

Then for the emergency and partial panel approaches, dim the PFD and put the information on the MFD by pushing the red button, so the student has to shoot the approach while looking to the MFD for info. I used to pull the CB for this which removed the small map from the window which was a little more of a challenge for the situationally challenged G1000 pilot.

I learned a lot from this aircraft and was making $45/hr to do it. I read the G-1000 manual cover to cover and learned a bunch of other cool features and created some other techniques not listed. Check out the point and shoot feature.

One other suggestion is to cover the MFD every so often so the student will develop some situational awarness skills without having to resort to staring at the map. I learned this during a hold when the student was fluctuating on his heading. I look over at him and he is staring at the MFD tracing the hold as it is pictured on the map with the little video game airplane.