Taxi Clearance or Not?

BYUFlyr

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So earlier today my pvt student and I received our taxi clearance as follows: "Cessna xxxxx taxi to runway 31 advise when leaving the runup area." We read back, "Taxi to 31 Cessna xxxxx."

As we were about to leave the runup area I took the opportunity to explain to our student that we were already cleared to taxi all the way to the hold short line at 31 so the additional call to ground control was not an additional clearance, but merely a courtesy call to ADVISE that we were leaving the runup area. As we make the ADVISORY call and continue taxiing out to the runway the controller yells over the radio, "Cessna xxxxx return to the runup area I have a helicopter landing on the taxiway!"

Now am I missing something or is it normal for a controller to clear a helicopter to land between our airplane and our clearance limit (rwy 31)? I thought the "... advise when leaving the runup area" was nothing more than a courtesy call. Shouldn't he say "taxi to the runup area" instead of "taxi to runway 31" if he wanted us request an additional clearance to continue taxiing?

I would appreciate the help of more experienced pilots than myself on this one.
 

UnAnswerd

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I'm just a dumb student with little hours, but taxi to 31 means taxi to 31. Should've cleared you no further than the run-up area if he was anticipating a helicopter landing on the taxiway.
 

great cornholio

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I'm probably dumb but I would take that clearance to mean don't leave the run up pad until you call ground. Sounds to me the reason ground gave you that was because he already knew that the helicopter was going to land on your taxiway.

The reason he didn't say "Taxi to the runway 31 runup pad" was because you wanted to go to the runway not the runup pad and he expected that you were going to go to the runup pad and do a runup then taxi to the hold short line. Since the helicopter was in the area he wanted you to call him before you left the runup pad so he could either make the helicopter land some where else on the airport or have you hold your position until the helicotper was out of your way.

I think it might have been similar to something like "Taxi to runway 13 hold short of runway 22"
 

BYUFlyr

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great cornholio said:
I would take that clearance to mean don't leave the run up pad until you call ground.

In that case wouldn't "Advise BEFORE leaving the runnup area" be more appropriate? Or "Taxi to runnup area?"

Maybe I'm just hung up on small details....
 

great cornholio

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Yeah you're probably just getting hung up on the details. Only the controller really knows what he meant for you to do. Anyways I wouldn't get to worried no one got hurt and no one got in trouble as long as you learn from the deal then its all good.
 

MVSW

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BYUFlyr said:
So earlier today my pvt student and I received our taxi clearance as follows: "Cessna xxxxx taxi to runway 31 advise when leaving the runup area." We read back, "Taxi to 31 Cessna xxxxx."

As we were about to leave the runup area I took the opportunity to explain to our student that we were already cleared to taxi all the way to the hold short line at 31 so the additional call to ground control was not an additional clearance, but merely a courtesy call to ADVISE that we were leaving the runup area. As we make the ADVISORY call and continue taxiing out to the runway the controller yells over the radio, "Cessna xxxxx return to the runup area I have a helicopter landing on the taxiway!"

Now am I missing something or is it normal for a controller to clear a helicopter to land between our airplane and our clearance limit (rwy 31)? I thought the "... advise when leaving the runup area" was nothing more than a courtesy call. Shouldn't he say "taxi to the runup area" instead of "taxi to runway 31" if he wanted us request an additional clearance to continue taxiing?

I would appreciate the help of more experienced pilots than myself on this one.

If he says "taxi to rwy 31, advise leaving the runup area" You taxi your happy butt to rwy 31. He might have said "advise leaving runup area", but he cleared you to taxi. Point blank your right!
 

dhc8fo

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He didn't know how long you were going to be in the runup. I wouldn't read too much into it. You were cleared to taxi to the runway AND he asked you for some courtesy information.

If you had been in the runup area long enough and the helo had come and gone, or if you weren't in the runup area for very long and the helo wasn't ready to land yet, the controller probably would have just said, "OK thanks" when you told him that you were taxiing out because you had already been cleared to the runway. Since he was trying to juggle the two of you, he ammended your clearance when you gave him your advisory.
 

NYCPilot

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I agree with DHC's comments, but isn't there something about the controller giving you a reason as to why he might need you to report leaving the runup area? Kinda like when you're told why you're receiving radar vectors or asked to do anything else. The controller probably should have advised you as to why he needs you to report leaving the run-up area. Especially if there was a chance of a collison.
 

IP076

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great cornholio said:
Yeah you're probably just getting hung up on the details. Only the controller really knows what he meant for you to do. Anyways I wouldn't get to worried no one got hurt and no one got in trouble as long as you learn from the deal then its all good.

I guess the lesson learned here is that we should be able to read controller's minds? For what its worth, I think you were absouletly right in saying that you were cleared to the Runway, he said "Advise leaving the run up area" and thats just what you did. I wouldnt worry about it, and if anything came of it, I'd say you're probably more correct than the controller!
 

igneousy2

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If he intended to keep you off the taxiway he would have said "hold short of the taxiway" or "hold your position"

You were cleared to taxi to the runway. It's like controllers telling you "report base". it doesn't mean not to enter your base leg, just tell them when you are there.

the controller screwed up and was probably trying to save face.

later
 
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