Taking over a pre-solo transfer student

[Slye]

Forgive me if this has been discussed previously, although I did attempt a search for this. I have a few students that I've received that have already done most of their pre-solo training with their previous instructor and are close to soloing. What must I do to get them to solo? Am I required to have them perform all the maneuvers listed in the FARs (slow flight, ground ref, etc) and give them a new pre-solo written exam or can I just use the pre-solo written that the old cfi gave them and already corrected and make sure that the old instructor did the required maneuvers as well?

Also, I have another student that has already done some solo cross countries and just needs to do one more. Should I review x-c procedures and give them a sign-off for the specific x-c or do they need new initial solo and x-c endorsements from me?

Thanks for your help in advance, this stuff can be confusing sometimes...

 

[dasmith]

Think about it from a liability perspective. Why wouldn't you give them your pre-solo exam? Why wouldn't you test their aeronautical knowledge prior to endorsing their logbook that they have the required presolo aeronautical knowledge? Why wouldn't you go through airwork, target practice, soft field, emergency procedures even though they did it with their previous instructor?

For a student to get an X/C solo endorsement from you, they must have a current 90 day solo, class b if required, and an x/c solo endorsement saying you have reviewed their planning and are convinced they can conduct the flight safely. Cover yourself in terms of a potential violation and 709 ride, and by all means, buy flight instructor insurance from NAFI or AoPA.

ds

 

[bobbysamd]

Transfer pre-solo student training

14 CFR 61.87 might provide the guidance and perspective you're seeking:

Limitations on flight instructors authorizing solo flight. (1) No instructor may authorize a student pilot to perform a solo flight unless that instructor has --

(i) Given that student pilot training in the make and model of aircraft or a similar make and model of aircraft in which the solo flight is to be flown;

(ii) Determined the student pilot is proficient in the maneuvers and procedures prescribed in this section;

(iii) Determined the student pilot is proficient in the make and model of aircraft to be flown;

(iv) Ensured that the student pilot's certificate has been endorsed by an instructor authorized to provide flight training for the specific make and model aircraft to be flown; and

(v) Endorsed the student pilot's logbook for the specific make and model aircraft to be flown, and that endorsement remains current for solo flight privileges, provided an authorized instructor updates the student's logbook every 90 days thereafter.

(2) The flight training required by this section must be given by an instructor authorized to provide flight training who is appropriately rated and current.

Perhaps I'm construing the reg too strictly, but I take it to mean that the student's current instructor must fufill the requirements of 14 CFR 61.87. In any event, I would be absolutely sure that I have given him/her the required training and I am satisfied that he/she meets standards before I would sign off the student for solo. That doesn't mean that you retrain the student from the beginning. You can do what you need to do with that student in a flight or two.

I think you also need to give a cross-country student fresh endorsements if you're taking over his/her training.

You need to do these not only from a liability standpoint but from a regulatory standpoint as well.

Hope all this helps. Good luck with your new students.

PS-As I think back, that happened to me as a student. My instructor had to go out of town, so he set me up with another instructor for the duration of his trip. I already had soloed. Just the same, that instructor put me through much of the same stuff that my instructor had given me. I didn't understand it. Then, the other instructor gave me new signoffs. I realized later that he was merely fulfilling the FAR I cited above.

 

[Timebuilder]

I'm with Bobby. Put the students through their paces, and give the presolo test.

It's your certificate on the line.

 

[340drvr]

Think of it like you're giving them a "stage check." As bobbysamd said, if they're up to snuff, one or two flights should do it. If they don't meet spec, then continue the training.

 

[Iceman21]

I would evaluate them through quizzing, talking about manuevers, a/c specifics, and generally test their knowledge. Then go out and fly with them, if the things you talked about on the ground were satisfactory then move on to something else. However, if you felt that you found an area that was deficient then patch the hole.

Give them the pre-solo written again. Can't hurt, right, it's practice.

Like everyone else has said, it's your name on the line and your ticket, so make sure you feel confident when you sign him/her off, and don't sign them off because "buddy" said they were good.

If you have a ground instructor certificate then you use that cert number when endorsing writtens and pre-solo writtens. This will protect you CFI certificate if they bust any of the tests.

 

[Slye]

Thanks guys. I planned on evaluating thier knowledge and skills, but I just wanted to be sure. I appreciate everyone's help, seems like you can't go wrong by taking the extra step to cover yourself.

 

[nosehair]

Iceman21, check this!

This is a common misunderstanding about Ground Instructor Certificates. If you lose any certificate, you lose all certificates. You can't "protect" your CFI by signing your AGI or IGI. If you come before the FAA for any Certificate action, they tell you "Give us ALL your Airman Certificates", and , yes, your Ground Instructor Certificate is an Airman Certificate. They don't want you teaching ground school if you are a "violator".
Secondly, even if you could "protect" your CFI by using your GI, you don't risk anything on the pre-solo written. The only tests that count for or against you are the FAA written and practical.
The pre-solo is strictly between you and your student.

 

[Iceman21]

Nosehair

I was referring to Pass/Fail percentage going against your CFI when thinking about renewing your CFI certificate.

If you maintain a 90% with your CFI certificate and say a 65% with you GI certs, the FAA may re-up your CFI without having to do a FIRC, thereby renewing all instructor certs.

Then again this can also work the other way around but logically if you have a 65% pass rate with your CFI and a 90% with your GI cert I would imagine that the FSDO would make you do the FIRC any way.

When it comes to certificate action, I know there is nothing you can do to protect one certicate and let go of the other one.

 

[dasmith]

Since when is the endorsing CFI # transmitted when you register for the test at the testing centre? In all of my 13 writtens, there wasn't a single time the testing centre made note of my endorsing CFI ID#. ds

 

[Iceman21]

Now that I think of it Darren you are correct. It is not trasmitted, but your endorsement is in his/her logbook, leaving a paper trail.

 

[guyincognito]

I certainly agree that you need to evaluate his competency before signing off on the solo, but please be efficient about it. I began my training in a Citabria. I had soloed and was ready for my first solo xcntry when summer break ended and I had to go back to college. (I had 23 hours, of which 12 were post-solo) So I switched to a new airport, new instructor and into Cessnas, since it was all they had. My new instructor was an 'ink-wet' CFI and I ended up flying for 15 more hours before he signed me off to solo. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, it should have been 1/3 of that. I don't know if he was trying to build his dual given, his paycheck or he was just overly protective, but it cost me money and time, and hurt our student/teacher relationship. It made me question his own comfort level, skills and motivation and his faith in me, which did not give me much confidence. I finally finished up a few years later at yet another airport/city, and I finished up quickly.

So by all means, protect yourself and your student (who knows how good his last instructor was), but do it wisely, efficiently and supportively to your new student.

 

[bobbysamd]

Overprotective CFI

I certainly agree that you need to evaluate his competency before signing off on the solo, but please be efficient about it. I began my training in a Citabria. I had soloed and was ready for my first solo xcntry when summer break ended and I had to go back to college. (I had 23 hours, of which 12 were post-solo) So I switched to a new airport, new instructor and into Cessnas, since it was all they had. My new instructor was an 'ink-wet' CFI and I ended up flying for 15 more hours before he signed me off to solo . . . .

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, he probably (1) wasn't sure what he was doing. He probably didn't realize that he could cover what he needed to cover pursuant to 14 CFR 61.87 in a couple of flights, and/or (2) was being overprotective, of you and of his certificates.

I'm not defending the guy per se; all of us were new instructors at one time, and some new instructors are overprotective. Experience smoothens that out. He shouldn't made you fly another fifteen hours.