Taboo Aviation Question FAR135/121

[smokinhole]

Hey Guys, I hate to make this my first post but I have a couple interviews coming up and hoped to get some opinions on the situation I'm in.

I once worked the ramp at a part 121 airline where I mistakenly refused to submit to a part 121 drug test. I had a private certificate at the time. They came back 1.5 yrs later and revoked my certs.

It's been 6 years since thats happened and I recovered and continued flying and have not really had a problem finding part 91 corporate jobs. I just explain that I was young and you don't always make the smartest decisions when you are 20 years old, nor did I understand the connection between throwing bags and my future flying career. Other than that I have a spotless record, not even a speeding ticket..ever!

I've got a few interviews coming up with 135 and 121 carriers and would like to know if I am automatically disqualified or does it carry about the same weight as say a DUI?

According to the regs I am not barred from performing a safety sensitive function, so that shouldn't be an issue. I know I am definitely the black sheep but I'm good at what I do and am not going to let a mistake when I was young ruin my chosen career. I would just like to break out of part 91 corporate flying and get some different experience under my belt.

Any similar experiences or chief pilots out there who have delt with this sort of situation. What is my best tact to take with this, besides being humbled?

Regards,
S.H.

 

[vclean]

Be prepared to explain why you refused a drug test. Being 20 at the time is not a valid excuse. The first thought will be if you felt the test results would be positive, therefore you refused the test. You will be the only applicant with a revoked license history among the other applicants. You are fortunate to have the chance to interview. Practice your interviewing skills, you have a huge hill to climb.

 

[smokinhole]

vclean,
My age at the time is not an excuse, just a piece of relavant information I thought I would give. Honestly, I don't have an excuse or try to make any. I screwed up, plain and simple. Here's a little more backgound. I went out to a college party and was around people smoking pot. The next morning at work I get pulled for a random drug test. I panicked. I thought I would test positive from being around the stuff and thought that if I just did'nt take the the test they would let me do it over in a couple days. I was naive and made a mistake that I'll have to explain for the rest of my career. No ones more regretfull about it than me. For what it's worth - After finding out the ramifications of my decision I went out on my own and had hair samples and certified tests done which proved I was clean for a period dating back 6 months prior to the incident. FAA did'nt give a crap though, they treated me like a first class criminal.

Anyone have any experiences with 135/121 hiring philosophies regarding this type of thing. I've heard plenty of stories about people getting hired with dui's and felonys and I don't feel that this is even in the same league. I would hope I'm not stuck in part 91 flying forever.....although it does has its perks.

S.H.

 

[cougar6903]

What kind of test did they want you to take? Urine? hair?

 

[smokinhole]

What kind of test did they want you to take? Urine? hair?

Standard random urinalysis.

 

[rumpletumbler]

So you were sucking on the weed and didn't want to take the test. PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT. Oh but sir I was around people eating poppy seed bagels yesterday. *wink wink* I'd say the truth would always be the best bet. I was talking to some folks about being a Sheriff's deputy a few years ago and I used drugs a plenty when I was young and they had no problem with it. They would have had I lied however. Always tell the truth and there will never be any suprises.

 

[smokinhole]

Don't jump to conclusions. If that were the truth I would have said so. Im not trying to hide anything
I'm trying to get facts.

You could not be more correct about telling the truth. I have been up front with every potential employer I have ever been approached by and have never recieved a bad reaction. They were never excited about it but it has never stopped me from getting a job. Honesty goes along way.

I just want to know about 135/125 hiring philosophies regarding hiring pilots with violations.

S.H.

 

[ThomasR]

It is unfortunate that the assumption is that anyone refusing to be searched is a criminal or involved in criminal activity. That is precisely why we have an ammendment covering such actions.

Random seaches are illegal. Get a lawyer and sue. Pretty soon they will be searching your house to see what magazines you read or anything they can find that might mean you are subversive.

I worked security control in the military. The army knows no Constitution. Officials can do whatever they feel is the most expedient way to solve a problem. There were times when, what would be considered civilian rights, were violated big time. All it takes is suspicion and they can turn your life into hell. There are no individuals in the military, you are part of a machine and as a machine you have no rights; your are treated like a machine, a GI machine.

The Constitution offers you the opportunity to be an individual!!!!

 

[Lori Clark]

SH-

Like the others have said, and yourself has said, honesty is the best policy. You are not the first to have suffered this type of situation. Believe me.
You can overcome it too. It's important that you learn how to answer this line of questioning so as to not raise any disbelief with the interviewers. This is not an automatic disqualifier. So, let me get this straight - the FAA revoked your cert 1 1/2 years after the fact and you only held a PPL? Were you ever convicted of anything? Hmmm.

To answer your question "What is my best tact to take with this, besides being humbled?" Well, the biggest one you've already got - humility. Next would be to talk about the facts, barring all emotion.

The airline is going to look for any negative trends in your past.

Good luck!

Lori

 

[pilotmyf]

Random seaches are illegal. Get a lawyer and sue. Pretty soon they will be searching your house to see what magazines you read or anything they can find that might mean you are subversive.

Just what we need, More litigation ...............

 

[smokinhole]

Random seaches are illegal. Get a lawyer and sue. Pretty soon they will be searching your house to see what magazines you read or anything they can find that might mean you are subversive.

Just what we need, More litigation ...............

Yeah I'm with ya on the random searches!

Problem is RANDOM DRUG TESTS are part of life in the transportation industry. I realize the point and the need for them in certain circumstances.

The problem I have is the the lack of discretion in penalties handed out in an attempt to enforce zero tolerance programs.

Give me a break, who'd of thought you could ruin your career by screwing up when you were throwing bags for a commuter airline? They made a example out of me, as if getting a letter in the mail that said United States of America VS. SmokinHole Did'nt get my attention enough!

 

[smokinhole]

Lori Clark,

Please check you Private Messages! Thanks

S.H.

 

[vetteracer]

Assuming your innocence, the problem that has arisen does speak volumes of the company you chose to keep. I did not grow up in a cave and have been to hundreds of parties. I have always tried to distance myself from any persons around me using drugs. Seems like timing, the planets aligned just right, and you were caught in a bad situation. I would have taken the drug test. They are more accurate then you think and if it was just some secondary smoke you inhaled in passing then I think you would have been fine. If you sat in a room with people burning marijuana for hours on end, then there is no difference between taking a toke or siting back and breathing the residual.

Drugs carry a stigma that seems to be overlooked were alcohol is concerned, DUI’s not withstanding.

Drug use also carries with it the assumption that you are a chronic user due to the addictive nature of many drugs.

Have you consulted legal counsel about using your private drug test to expunge yourself?

Mark

 

[smokinhole]

vetteracer,
The stigma and inference that this violation carries with it, is what bothers me the most. I pride myself on my morals and integrity. In a attempt to avoid being associated with drugs I forever linked myself to them. So Ironic it makes me sick.

Fortunately the company I kept and the person I was in my early twenties is nowhere near the person I am now. To say the least I'm a different person. I wouldn't wish what happened to me on my worst enemy, but it really gave me a wake up call and I'm probably better off for it in the long run.

In regards to getting it expunged from my record, they won't even think about it. Unfortunately, I'll still be explaining this one when I'm 50. When I submitted the tests to prove I was clean, the FAA turned it around on me. They charged that it just proved the depth of my intent to avoid the testing process and showed my further dissregard for the regulations. They really tried to make an example out of me and they did. I don't know if if had anything to do with the punishment but I refused the test in June 2000 and they revoked my certs and started the investigation two days after 9/11. They said I was a threat to national transportation security! Go figure, They did'nt care for the 1 1/2 years prior.

I think I'm stuck with this one for the long run.

 

[vetteracer]

Quote

The stigma and inference that this violation carries with it, is what bothers me the most. I pride myself on my morals and integrity. In an attempt to avoid being associated with drugs I forever linked myself to them. So ironic it makes me sick.

I can almost sympathies with your dilemma. I have been reviewing my records lately and I am just pissed off at myself for getting a dozen speeding tickets since I was 14 years old. Not to mention an alcohol possession by a minor and an exhibition driving pulling a wheeley with a 600 HP chevelle in the High School parking lot. Things we do when we are younger hang with us our entire lives. My dad did not care about anything I did other then drugs. He would have literally beaten the crap out of me and destroyed my life had he found even a roach clip in my car. So I figured that I best steer clear of that. Drugs seem to imply an entire lifestyle that is unacceptable to society.

The more experiences you have in life, the more opportunities you take, if you are busy, active, lead a full life, go to parties, have friends, travel, work, live, whatever, the more the opportunity to get caught doing something or in a situation like this. I think of everything I have done in the last 14 years and the good decisions that I have made out weigh the bad ones by 10,000 fold. But you are only called on what you have done wrong.

Mark

 

[smokinhole]

" you are only called on what you do wrong"

So true!

 

[Ailerongirl]

For what it's worth - After finding out the ramifications of my decision I went out on my own and had hair samples and certified tests done which proved I was clean for a period dating back 6 months prior to the incident.

As everyone has already said obvioulsy honesty is the best policy, but it wouldn't hurt for you to have the results of the test you did privately with you at an interview.

Good luck!

 

[smokinhole]

As everyone has already said obvioulsy honesty is the best policy, but it wouldn't hurt for you to have the results of the test you did privately with you at an interview.

Good luck!

Ha! Yeah, thank god I took those! They have been my saving grace over the past few years.

Unfortunately, the interviewers usually lock the doors on me when they see me draging my file cabinet full of paperwork up to the desk!

I feel like a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** laywer presenting evidence at a interview......"And here we have Exhibit A"....."which is proved by Exhibit C" Sheeeeesh!

I wish I could have afforded OJ's attorney, I'd be home free! Come to think of it, you have a better chance of getting away with murder than winning a case with the FAA Mulisha.Talk about a kangaroo court, what a joke. The Judge and the prosecutors work for the same boss! And, if the Judge were to rule in your favor the FAA can overturn the judges ruling! Gimme a break, try that in a public court of law, the ACLU would be crying foul all the way to the Supreme Court.

Sorry....got off topic there....I'm just a tad bitter!

S.H.

 

[vetteracer]

I have would recommend when you mention the problem during an interview, don’t dwell on it and don’t act as though they are a jury and will find you not guilty. Admit the large details and explain your actions, then mention the follow up test you did and mention that you have the results if they care to inspect them.

Then move on, and leave the topic with a positive note, something to the effect of "It was a poor judgement call on me behalf and I have learned life changing lessons and to be more personally responsible for myself".

If you dwell on the issue and plead your case you will seem as though you are more interested in the total vindication of the incident rather then how you have learned how to overcome this and avoid anything like this in the future.

I am not sure what your personal appearance is, but a short haircut, no earrings, etc may help.

Mark

 

[ThomasR]

Influence and stigma is what society is allowing. I have been around drugy's both in aviation and ground transportation companies. They are a bread to themselves and readily recognizable. Any manager will know who is using. You don't need to penalize the entire country in an attempt to weed out a very small % of abusers. It is insane and extremely lazy on the part of government and any company that subscribes to this form of social abuse of it workers and an afront to the integrity of society in general.

It is not right. It is wrong. It is illegal and it is not a frivolous law suit to correct this injustice. If you refuse a durg test the government automatically recognizes you as a user. Try to find a job anywhere. I have never used drugs, in fact I have been part of the legal arm to stop drug use. It is illelgal to convict someone of criminal activity without some, ANY kind of proof. Yet if you refuse to give up your rights as a citizen you will be convicted without cause, simply because you refuse to expose your penis or vagina to pee in a bottle for some perverted idiots.

I think those who give in to this insanity without question or a word of discontent, they are the perverted ones.