Tab

[Mud Eagle]

This is because these types of planes have flight engineers that back up the new guy. I know that my 5600 hrs as FE on a C-130 helped keep us alive in more that one situation. That is as a Marine Corps FE, we do the work and we fly on them.

There's no FE in a fighter, yet they do the same act...turn a guy loose in an F-14/F-15/F-16/F-18 with 300 hours total time and only 100 in type. Then at 300 in type (500 TT) he's a flight lead where he's not only flying himself around, but another airplane, too. Oh, and he's not just boring holes in the sky and flying instrument approaches...he's also responsible for the tactical employment of those two airplanes. 100 hours later, with 400 in type and 600TT, that same 26 or 27 year old is now in charge of *4* airplanes -- not just double the airplanes, but an exponential increase in the possible contingencies he's going to have to deal with as a flight leader.

There's no FE, there's no co-pilot....it's awfully quiet in that cockpit when a life-and-death decision has to be made, and young guys with much less than 1,000 hours do it every day.

 

[Diesel]

MudEagle. While I appreciate what you in the military do it is like comparing apples oranges. A military pilot in fighters may only get 1000 or 1500 hours in his whole career depending on the squadron and the type of flying he does.

Military programs are very accelerated. They have weeded out the poor pilots, and the pilots that can't learn at the fast pace a long time ago. it is the creme of the crop pilots.

Military flying is very regulated, by the book. It's not out of the box type of flying. Look what happened when the thunderbirds came out of DC and had to deal with civilian flying.

I appreciate your input. Military pilots and civilian are just plain different. That's a whole different topic though.

 

[bertengineer]

Without fuel...you're nothing

There's no FE, there's no co-pilot....it's awfully quiet in that cockpit when a life-and-death decision has to be made, and young guys with much less than 1,000 hours do it every day.

In a far off distant place, at night, no moon, and you are alone with your single seat, non crew oriented aircraft...remember one thing:
Without the support of the tanker, you are nothing but a hole in the ground.

 

[AZaviator]

PRICE?????

Still haven't seen what the cost of TAB's program is. Anyone want to share this info with the rest of the group?

 

[C601]

AZaviator

For someone out of State, including training, housing etc... I'd say its the best part of $80000 not including the interest assuming you get approved for that much as i have said it before in another post.

 

[Mud Eagle]

Re: Without fuel...you're nothing

In a far off distant place, at night, no moon, and you are alone with your single seat, non crew oriented aircraft...remember one thing:
Without the support of the tanker, you are nothing but a hole in the ground.

Agreed...I'm the first to admit the NKAWTG. God bless those guys.

Regarding the "non-crew oriented aircraft" potshot, remember that just because there's only one or two guys physically sitting in the airplane, it doesn't mean that there's not crew coordination.

We employ fighter aircraft as 2 or 4-ship groups...the same tenets of crew coordination that allow 3 or 4 guys on a flight deck to safely operate their one aircraft also apply in between cockpits of airplanes operating as a team.

 

[Sunnfun]

Re: PRICE?????

Still haven't seen what the cost of TAB's program is. Anyone want to share this info with the rest of the group?

According to their website:

Starting at / Months / Price
Zero time to a job ( up to 372 hrs total)* 6 $64,700
Private/Single Engine Land (SEL) to Job* 4-5 $60,500
Private/Multi Engine Land (MEL) to Job* 4-5 $57,300
Private/Single Engine/Instrument to Job* 4-5 $57,300
Private/Multi Engine/Instrument to Job* 3-4 $52,000
Commercial/Single Engine/Instrument to Job* 3-4 $52,000
Commercial/Multi Engine/Instrument to Job* 3-4 $47,500

More info at: TabExpress

Cheers,
Sun'n Fun

 

[bobbysamd]

FSI v. TAB

Training at TAB can cost a pretty penny and you don't leave with skills that will get you work easily. Compare it to FSI, found at its web site:

Commercial-Multi-Instrument: $44,059.00
Commercial-Single: 2,566.00
CFI-A (expensive!): 8,343.00
CFI-I: 4,453.00
MEI: 5,310.00

TOTAL: $64,731.00

I would add another $6,000 to reflect the actual charges more accurately. Most everyone needs a little more than course mins. Also, flights are often incomplete for whatever reason, stage checks are busted, etc.

In any event, FSI is exactly $31 more than TAB, who only gives you your Commercial-Multi-Instrument. But, with all your CFI certificates and ratings, you have real, marketable skills. You're more likely to find work quicker than from a TAB-sponsered "interview." Once more, hiring at the commuters is slow. And, just because you get an interview via TAB, there are no guarantees that you will be hired. Not getting hired may have nothing at all to do with you. The interview might just be a superficial CYA courtesy for TAB to avoid any breach of contract or bad faith problems. And, once more, you may succeed at the interview but be placed in a hiring pool for an indeterminate time.

I make these points not necessarily because I am partial to FSI. I had my differences with the place; otherwise, I wouldn't have left there for other instructing job(s). I make these comments to point out that if you're going to spend upwards of $65K for flight training, you should acquire as many quals as possible to get you work and keep you working.

Hope this helps some more. Frankly, I don't feel the 50 hours of sole manipulator turbine justifies the expense. Moreover, if you can get through a program such as FSI (or Comair, to be fair, again) and have good study skills, you'll do fine in class at your regional. Plenty of other flight instructors have been in those shoes and have done fine without getting all the LOFT that TAB may provide. And, regarding CRM, you'll learn it as you work with your students.

 

[eyelevelflyer]

Zero time to a job ( up to 372 hrs total)* 6 $64,700

Right, right

 

[Whirlwind]

There's no FE in a fighter, yet they do the same act...turn a guy loose in an F-14/F-15/F-16/F-18 with 300 hours total time and only 100 in type. Then at 300 in type (500 TT) he's a flight lead where he's not only flying himself around, but another airplane, too. Oh, and he's not just boring holes in the sky and flying instrument approaches...he's also responsible for the tactical employment of those two airplanes. 100 hours later, with 400 in type and 600TT, that same 26 or 27 year old is now in charge of *4* airplanes -- not just double the airplanes, but an exponential increase in the possible contingencies he's going to have to deal with as a flight leader.

There's no FE, there's no co-pilot....it's awfully quiet in that cockpit when a life-and-death decision has to be made, and young guys with much less than 1,000 hours do it every day.

Yes, and the US Government doesn't have an insurance company to make happy either.

WW