Tab Express Closed, Scandal Again!!

[MFRskyknight]

You could rob a Key Bank. Seems only fair really....



g

Just like making off with one of Airman's planes seemed fair to me at the time (and still does). Fair, but dangerous. I don't know how far one of those pieces would get me, especially if I was trying to outrun the "heat"....

MFR

 

[NuGuy]

Ummm,

Let me get this straight...morgage your Grandmother to take out a 100k+ loan at rates that would make a loan shark blush, never see the money, and hand it to a place that has been in business for less than a couple of years, all in the name of a CHANCE of getting a job that pays 20k to start, and 60k is the best you wil EVER DO.

What am I missing here? Good god, just take the money and go to Med school in the Carribiean. At least people would call you "Doctor" then.

I swear this business creates more gambling addicts than Vegas.

Nu

 

[timeoff]

I saw the report on channel 6 last night. It amazes me being that all these "students" had to do was spend a couple hours on the computer to find out the deal with places like Tab. To each his own, but I have no sympathy for people who go off and do stupid things like drop six figures without any real research before hand.

 

[mcjohn]

Lesson learned yet folks? Go to your local little mom and pops FBO and save $80-90g's. You may find that you don't even need to finance if you're making over $30g a year. Might have more fun, make more connections, and go at your own pace.
The only place I could see getting that loan for would be ATPs and that's only if you're on a do or die mission. The 90 day program is pure hell to go through from what I've heard but it's worth it considering the multi time you build and obtaining the CFII and MEI. And you're done in a few months. Just knock out all 5 writtens before you show.
Doooon't PFT!!

 

[Cardinal]

Lesson learned yet folks? Go to your local little mom and pops FBO and save $80-90g's. You may find that you don't even need to finance if you're making over $30g a year. Might have more fun, make more connections, and go at your own pace.
The only place I could see getting that loan for would be ATPs and that's only if you're on a do or die mission. The 90 day program is pure hell to go through from what I've heard but it's worth it considering the multi time you build and obtaining the CFII and MEI. And you're done in a few months. Just knock out all 5 writtens before you show.
Doooon't PFT!!

A big +1

 

[G-force]

About Tab Express

And to make matters worse, the Students who where left out to dry with Tab, where given the option i think by Key bank to finish there training @ Gulfstream, which meant they had to take another loan out......

A person I spoke to who attended Tab, transfered to Gulfstream told me as soon as they get hired by a Regional carrier, some where going to file for BK, as they knew they where going to be unable to pay back the money, b/c of what had gone on with TAB

I asked him how much he borrowed total $115K of which is grandmother co-signed for him.....

There were alot of posts on a thread back in july '05.Do a search on Tab Express.READ the POSTS!!!!

 

[wheelsup]

Reminds me of the redTails at Orlando exec a few years back...just a FYI post..

There would be some people that would tell you the ATA "salesmen" were also TAB employees.

These same people would also tell you that these "salesmen" were expensing personal expenses through TAB.


Oh, and about the $90k car, ferrari's cost MUCH more than that!

 

[DJRobbioRobbio]

didn't you (the student) sign on the dotted line having read the contract and agree to ride the ride and take your chances?

isn't that part of the deal? the lender lends the money in accordance with the agreement you signed, and you hope the folks you designate act in accordance with your goals?

is there no responsiblily on your behalf? when stuff goes wrong I agree it sucks - but the risk was there before the contract was signed. don't be mad at the lender, isn't TAB to blame?

had it all worked out and you had made your dream job and had your very own 777 with your name under the window you wouldn't be angry or happier with key bank - they did their part, so why are you mad now?

its not predatory lending - some idiot signed it and agreed to the terms.

that's a stupid tax. learn now or pay it again and again.

However what makes this so fishy is that TAB was granted a TON of money. They had I think 4 or 5 Beech 1900D's, and they constantly flew them, on top of that they NEVER started their planned commercial service. So the collateral is OBVIOUSLY on the planes, the buildings, materials, and guess who? The students It's easy to get millions of dollars in financing if you in essence sign the burden of debt onto the shoulders of the student, but you put that in such vague legal bref, and in such little print, nobody is going to want to read it. Sounds predatory to me.

I think Key loaned TAB the money with the [low] expectation that they'll one day be able to pay it back b/c they were making cash for themselves. Sounds predatory to me.

Remember TAB's philosophy, if you get drafted into their hiring class, they'll pay for all your training, as long as you promise to work for them for 'X' amount of years. It's like Delta Connection Academy, only difference is that the company subsidizes all your costs as a student. Sets the stage up for predatory lending....

Hence why we have all this mess.

 

[mcjohn]

How 'bout just stay away from Florida. Why are there so many aviation crooks down there.

Well, I did get my CFI at KPIE for less than $4000.

 

[kevdog]

Sorry to all the people at TAB who got screwed. Delta Connection probably won't be shutting their doors there anytime soon, probably you're next best idea on how to become a career pilot. Just take another loan, you'll be making $350,000 a year in about 10.

 

[wheelsup]

However what makes this so fishy is that TAB was granted a TON of money. They had I think 4 or 5 Beech 1900D's, and they constantly flew them,

TAB's 1900's spent most of their time in SFB getting worked on or on their ramp in Deland. I wouldn't say they "constantly" flew them. The King Air 90's were flown a lot, however, because they were used in training.

Remember TAB's philosophy, if you get drafted into their hiring class, they'll pay for all your training, as long as you promise to work for them for 'X' amount of years.

This is incorrect. The student had to front the training costs up front, and after a period of 4 years, if still 'employed', TAB was supposed to refund all of said students' money.

TAB also wanted to use their two IAI Westwind I's for "regional jet service" as well. Yes I'm not kidding.

The scary thing about them is the similarities between them and ATA, from the people who worked there down to the way they operated and then closed their doors unexpectently.

 

[Lazy8]

Now what I don't understand is what this Title 4 thing is all about. Anybody care to elaborate on that?

In a nutshell... Title 4 schools are typically accredited colleges and universities. Title 4 schools can qualify for federal student financial aid and grants. Everyone else is limited to private lenders.

g

 

[C601]

There were alot of posts on a thread back in july '05.Do a search on Tab Express.READ the POSTS!!!!

I don't need to read nothing, I got it 1st hand from someone who was there @ Tab and when i spoke to them they where at Gulfstream, at that was early this year. I spend about 20mins talking to the guy.....

 

[Metro752]

I plan on marrying a doctor.

me too!

 

[A Squared]

Key is using the students as collateral in giving Tab Express hugs sums of loan money,

No, Key bank is loaning the students money.

....and ultimately expecting the students to pay back all the money that's been invested in them by the company.

Of course they expect the students to pay back the money. They loaned the money to the students, the students are expected to pay it back.

However, I say Key Bank should go after Tab for the portion of the loans that didn't pay for training i.e. the unused amount.

Why exactly woud they go after TAB? They didn't loan the money to TAB, they loaned the money to the students.

Why does this seem to be such a difficult concept for some?

Look, I have no love for banks, Key or otherwise, and I'm certainly not trying to defend TAB, but there seems to be a pretty fundamental lack of understanding about what exactly occurs when you take a loan from a bank.

When you get a loan from a bank, for whatever reason, (tuition, new car, house, stereo system, whatever) you are agreeing to pay the bank back. the fact that you may have forked over all your cash to a business which took the money and ran, does not change that. You owe the bank the money. If TAB (or airman, or ATA or whoever) took your money and folded, that is between you and TAB. Now, this probably sounds harsh, but I certainly wouldn't hand over $50K in cash with no security to a company without knowing the company pretty well. And that's exactly what these students have done, handed over unsecured cash, $115K of it in one case, apparently.

The fact that the money went directly from the bank to the school doesn't change that. Legally, that's what happened, you borrowed a bunch of money, and handed it over in cash to the school. Doesn't sound too bright when you put it like that, does it?

I'm not without sympathy for the students who got screwed, but I have to shake my head when folks say they shouldn't have to pay back a loan when the company they handed that money over to went out of business.

 

[smellthejeta]

No, Key bank is loaning the students money.



Of course they expect the students to pay back the money. They loaned the money to the students, the students are expected to pay it back.



Why exactly woud they go after TAB? They didn't loan the money to TAB, they loaned the money to the students.

Why does this seem to be such a difficult concept for some?

Look, I have no love for banks, Key or otherwise, and I'm certainly not trying to defend TAB, but there seems to be a pretty fundamental lack of understanding about what exactly occurs when you take a loan from a bank.

When you get a loan from a bank, for whatever reason, (tuition, new car, house, stereo system, whatever) you are agreeing to pay the bank back. the fact that you may have forked over all your cash to a business which took the money and ran, does not change that. You owe the bank the money. If TAB (or airman, or ATA or whoever) took your money and folded, that is between you and TAB. Now, this probably sounds harsh, but I certainly wouldn't hand over $50K in cash with no security to a company without knowing the company pretty well. And that's exactly what these students have done, handed over unsecured cash, $115K of it in one case, apparently.

The fact that the money went directly from the bank to the school doesn't change that. Legally, that's what happened, you borrowed a bunch of money, and handed it over in cash to the school. Doesn't sound too bright when you put it like that, does it?

I'm not without sympathy for the students who got screwed, but I have to shake my head when folks say they shouldn't have to pay back a loan when the company they handed that money over to went out of business.

$115k? What APR were these loans taken out at? I thought I saw somebody mention 20%. That's unbelievable. What do you need $115k for anyway? ATP only charges $40k. Ouch. I got sympathy for the homies that lost out on this one, because $115k is going to hurt to pay off, or hurt even more when it goes delinquent, the bank sues, and it ends up on your credit report.

 

[wrxpilot]

And to make matters worse, the Students who where left out to dry with Tab, where given the option i think by Key bank to finish there training @ Gulfstream, which meant they had to take another loan out......

A person I spoke to who attended Tab, transfered to Gulfstream told me as soon as they get hired by a Regional carrier, some where going to file for BK, as they knew they where going to be unable to pay back the money, b/c of what had gone on with TAB

I asked him how much he borrowed total $115K of which is grandmother co-signed for him.....

Is there not a point here where personal responsibility comes into play? I mean really... Borrowing $115k on Grandma's house for some pilot ratings? The person you spoke to was/is a moron.

 

[wrxpilot]

I saw the report on channel 6 last night. It amazes me being that all these "students" had to do was spend a couple hours on the computer to find out the deal with places like Tab. To each his own, but I have no sympathy for people who go off and do stupid things like drop six figures without any real research before hand.

That's what I'm wondering. What kind of IDIOT parts w/ multiple thousands of dollars before spending 15 mins to do some research? A fool and his money are quickly departed...

 

[C601]

Is there not a point here where personal responsibility comes into play? I mean really... Borrowing $115k on Grandma's house for some pilot ratings? The person you spoke to was/is a moron.

He maybe, but he knew nothing about aviation schools other that what he saw in the flying mag..... Young kid, in his early 20s, it would of not taken much to sell him TAB.

Funny thing asked me if we had any openings in our flight dept, I told him maybe in his next life time, stick to Gulfstream... I don't think he got what I mean't lol

 

[Pantherjon]

What a maroon..And I thought I was being anal doing all this research I have been doing on the flight school I am thinking of going to go to to get my PPL for a whole measly $8k..lol..A fool and his credit is soon in the poorhouse with a FICA score so low you couldn't boorow a dime if your life depended on it..