Tab Express Closed, Scandal Again!!

[wheelsup]

However what makes this so fishy is that TAB was granted a TON of money. They had I think 4 or 5 Beech 1900D's, and they constantly flew them,

TAB's 1900's spent most of their time in SFB getting worked on or on their ramp in Deland. I wouldn't say they "constantly" flew them. The King Air 90's were flown a lot, however, because they were used in training.

Remember TAB's philosophy, if you get drafted into their hiring class, they'll pay for all your training, as long as you promise to work for them for 'X' amount of years.

This is incorrect. The student had to front the training costs up front, and after a period of 4 years, if still 'employed', TAB was supposed to refund all of said students' money.

TAB also wanted to use their two IAI Westwind I's for "regional jet service" as well. Yes I'm not kidding.

The scary thing about them is the similarities between them and ATA, from the people who worked there down to the way they operated and then closed their doors unexpectently.

 

[Lazy8]

Now what I don't understand is what this Title 4 thing is all about. Anybody care to elaborate on that?

In a nutshell... Title 4 schools are typically accredited colleges and universities. Title 4 schools can qualify for federal student financial aid and grants. Everyone else is limited to private lenders.

g

 

[C601]

There were alot of posts on a thread back in july '05.Do a search on Tab Express.READ the POSTS!!!!

I don't need to read nothing, I got it 1st hand from someone who was there @ Tab and when i spoke to them they where at Gulfstream, at that was early this year. I spend about 20mins talking to the guy.....

 

[Metro752]

I plan on marrying a doctor.

me too!

 

[A Squared]

Key is using the students as collateral in giving Tab Express hugs sums of loan money,

No, Key bank is loaning the students money.

....and ultimately expecting the students to pay back all the money that's been invested in them by the company.

Of course they expect the students to pay back the money. They loaned the money to the students, the students are expected to pay it back.

However, I say Key Bank should go after Tab for the portion of the loans that didn't pay for training i.e. the unused amount.

Why exactly woud they go after TAB? They didn't loan the money to TAB, they loaned the money to the students.

Why does this seem to be such a difficult concept for some?

Look, I have no love for banks, Key or otherwise, and I'm certainly not trying to defend TAB, but there seems to be a pretty fundamental lack of understanding about what exactly occurs when you take a loan from a bank.

When you get a loan from a bank, for whatever reason, (tuition, new car, house, stereo system, whatever) you are agreeing to pay the bank back. the fact that you may have forked over all your cash to a business which took the money and ran, does not change that. You owe the bank the money. If TAB (or airman, or ATA or whoever) took your money and folded, that is between you and TAB. Now, this probably sounds harsh, but I certainly wouldn't hand over $50K in cash with no security to a company without knowing the company pretty well. And that's exactly what these students have done, handed over unsecured cash, $115K of it in one case, apparently.

The fact that the money went directly from the bank to the school doesn't change that. Legally, that's what happened, you borrowed a bunch of money, and handed it over in cash to the school. Doesn't sound too bright when you put it like that, does it?

I'm not without sympathy for the students who got screwed, but I have to shake my head when folks say they shouldn't have to pay back a loan when the company they handed that money over to went out of business.

 

[smellthejeta]

No, Key bank is loaning the students money.



Of course they expect the students to pay back the money. They loaned the money to the students, the students are expected to pay it back.



Why exactly woud they go after TAB? They didn't loan the money to TAB, they loaned the money to the students.

Why does this seem to be such a difficult concept for some?

Look, I have no love for banks, Key or otherwise, and I'm certainly not trying to defend TAB, but there seems to be a pretty fundamental lack of understanding about what exactly occurs when you take a loan from a bank.

When you get a loan from a bank, for whatever reason, (tuition, new car, house, stereo system, whatever) you are agreeing to pay the bank back. the fact that you may have forked over all your cash to a business which took the money and ran, does not change that. You owe the bank the money. If TAB (or airman, or ATA or whoever) took your money and folded, that is between you and TAB. Now, this probably sounds harsh, but I certainly wouldn't hand over $50K in cash with no security to a company without knowing the company pretty well. And that's exactly what these students have done, handed over unsecured cash, $115K of it in one case, apparently.

The fact that the money went directly from the bank to the school doesn't change that. Legally, that's what happened, you borrowed a bunch of money, and handed it over in cash to the school. Doesn't sound too bright when you put it like that, does it?

I'm not without sympathy for the students who got screwed, but I have to shake my head when folks say they shouldn't have to pay back a loan when the company they handed that money over to went out of business.

$115k? What APR were these loans taken out at? I thought I saw somebody mention 20%. That's unbelievable. What do you need $115k for anyway? ATP only charges $40k. Ouch. I got sympathy for the homies that lost out on this one, because $115k is going to hurt to pay off, or hurt even more when it goes delinquent, the bank sues, and it ends up on your credit report.

 

[wrxpilot]

And to make matters worse, the Students who where left out to dry with Tab, where given the option i think by Key bank to finish there training @ Gulfstream, which meant they had to take another loan out......

A person I spoke to who attended Tab, transfered to Gulfstream told me as soon as they get hired by a Regional carrier, some where going to file for BK, as they knew they where going to be unable to pay back the money, b/c of what had gone on with TAB

I asked him how much he borrowed total $115K of which is grandmother co-signed for him.....

Is there not a point here where personal responsibility comes into play? I mean really... Borrowing $115k on Grandma's house for some pilot ratings? The person you spoke to was/is a moron.

 

[wrxpilot]

I saw the report on channel 6 last night. It amazes me being that all these "students" had to do was spend a couple hours on the computer to find out the deal with places like Tab. To each his own, but I have no sympathy for people who go off and do stupid things like drop six figures without any real research before hand.

That's what I'm wondering. What kind of IDIOT parts w/ multiple thousands of dollars before spending 15 mins to do some research? A fool and his money are quickly departed...

 

[C601]

Is there not a point here where personal responsibility comes into play? I mean really... Borrowing $115k on Grandma's house for some pilot ratings? The person you spoke to was/is a moron.

He maybe, but he knew nothing about aviation schools other that what he saw in the flying mag..... Young kid, in his early 20s, it would of not taken much to sell him TAB.

Funny thing asked me if we had any openings in our flight dept, I told him maybe in his next life time, stick to Gulfstream... I don't think he got what I mean't lol

 

[Pantherjon]

What a maroon..And I thought I was being anal doing all this research I have been doing on the flight school I am thinking of going to go to to get my PPL for a whole measly $8k..lol..A fool and his credit is soon in the poorhouse with a FICA score so low you couldn't boorow a dime if your life depended on it..

 

[FN FAL]

Are you suggesting I find myself a Sugar Mamma?

Better act now, supplies of sugar mommies are dwindling.

 

[CTS]

The APR is now just over 5%. It is a variable rate based on the LIBOR. I was at TAB in 2002 and got picked up by Colgan Air then made my way to ASA. I did all my ratings on my own and used TAB's transition program to get my 1st 121 job. At the time I was there, everything seemed stright up. Bob had a nice porshe, the money for that came from his Cancer Insurance. I guess a few years back he purchased a large cancer policy, then he ended up with cancer, so he got the money. I know shortly before I arrived he was going through treatment. He had quite a few King Air 90's when I was there, maybe up to 20. Most, at the time were flying in the northeast. He leased them out to individuals and corporations. I knew going into the program there was a great risk that I would never see a job out of it, but I was lucky. The biggest problem I had with TAB, was they accepted everyone. There were guy's and gal's that had no business being in aviation. Mostly stick and rudder skills were lacking, but also the ability to get through ground school. There was no talk of an airline being started, and the most expensive program from 0 time to job was I think 70K? I guess alot changed over the nex few years. Somebody said here that they were going to file Bankruptsy, but if their granmother co signed the loan, then Key will go after her next. Hope she really likes you!

 

[Murdoughnut]

I called TAB in January of '05 because I had seen their ad in AOPA's Flight Training. I was just sorta curious. They quoted me $90k for the program. Even being ignorant of PFT and flight school costs in general, I knew I'd never ask my parents to cosign something like that - just not right. The more I looked into it, I couldn't figure how they would possibly need as many FOs as they were trying to bring in. The "airline" was only flying on a charter basis - and when I looked at their schedule, they had only chartered something like three flights for the next six months. Didn't add up to me.

I went through school up through my Masters degree for free thanks to scholarships and fellowships. I had long considered law school, but even $50k sounded too steep for me (I subsequently married a lawyer). I feel especially bad for the foreign students who got roped into this - those who probably didn't have the knowledge of American industry enough to know they were being bent over.

If anyone hasn't seen this, there's still a link for a news report that was done right after TAB closed down ... http://www.wesh.com/news/4618631/detail.html

Hey Mcjohn - where at KPIE did you do your CFI? I rent from CAMS.

 

[mcjohn]

American Flying Adventures. It was the only place I could find in the S.E. that had C152s at the right price, an Arrow, and a gold seal instructor to get me through quickly that was available full time. 80% of the checkride was in the 152 and 20% in the Arrow. Good way to do it. What is CAMS?

 

[Murdoughnut]

CAMS is another FBO on the field ... they just recently got into flight instruction, however (like in the last two years I believe). They're a Cessna Pilot Center. I rent a 152 from there for $69p/h (which includes a $10 fuel surcharge). Not as good as I use to get in Texas, but not bad for here.

St. Pete is a nice place to fly. Gets kinda crowded up and down the coast, but there's a lot of fun trips within an hour each way.