Synthetic Jet Fuel - News Story

[johnpeace]

Maybe, but at what price? The last estimate I found stated that the oil in Iraq can be pumped out at $1 per barrel.

Does that factor in the cost of 'liberating' Iraq?

 

[Princedietrich]

If I were a smart person with a lot of resources at my disposal, I would be throwing everything I had at developing commercially viable fusion power. We all know that it uses hydrogen for fuel, and hydrogen is the most abundant element in all of creation by a long shot. The byproduct is helium, which can either be used to make us all sound like Alvin and the Chipmunks or be used as more fusion fuel (albeit a little harder to cause a reaction).

Whoever comes up with that commercially viable fusion power application first, be it large scale electrical generation or a vehicle powerplant, is going to make Bill Gates look like a bum in the gutter.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

If I were a smart person with a lot of resources at my disposal, I would be throwing everything I had at developing commercially viable fusion power. We all know that it uses hydrogen for fuel, and hydrogen is the most abundant element in all of creation by a long shot. The byproduct is helium, which can either be used to make us all sound like Alvin and the Chipmunks or be used as more fusion fuel (albeit a little harder to cause a reaction).

Whoever comes up with that commercially viable fusion power application first, be it large scale electrical generation or a vehicle powerplant, is going to make Bill Gates look like a bum in the gutter.

The problem is that hydrogen does not exist in the world solely as hydrogen. It would have to be extracted from other combinations, the easiest probably water. The only country in the world that is successfully using hydrogen power is iceland. And the reason they are so successful is that they have a ton of geothermal (free) power to break down the hydrogen. Right now we would use more energy (oil) to break down the hydrogen then we would get back in hydrogen. We need better technology in Solar, tidal, or nuclear energy before hydrogen is a reality.

Necessity is the mother of invention. We are close to necessity. Humans are very complacent. But when an emergency rises we are also very innovative. I would say the next 10 years will be a boom in new technologies to solve our problem.

 

[Wiggums]

I think the guys making the bio-diesel from algae are on the right track. I'd be working on that and wind power if I was smart.

 

[zasca]

The quantities of hydrogen needed for a fusion generator are very small. A hydrogen bomb is not very big and look at the all the energy that creates. The real problem is containing the reaction with super strong magnetic fields. Not done yet on a large prolonged reaction. And the hydrogen ion is not widely found on earth, but all over the freaking moon.

If they can get it to work, we'll have almost unlimited cheap, clean electricity. Which can make all the hydrogen from electrolysis we want, and I'll buy myself that BMW 7 series that burns it in a juicy V12!!! Fuel cells are for wimps

 

[Slim]

Lear Love wrote:

this is BS to the max. The air force is completely irresponsible wrt to coal based fuel. All they are trying to do is offset their fuel costs then take that money for other stuff - i have nothing wrong with that however the impact on the earth with coal based fuel is horrible.


I'm no tree hugger and not a chem eng but i did study mechanical engineering. Its basic thermo or to be exact Stoichiometry. Put coal together with O2 and heat and the byproduct witchever way you hack it is CARBON GAS and lots of it - way thicker and denser than petro based fuels. This tech has been around for along time. The germans knew about it so did everyone else. It is a D- solution to our energy problem(s) at best.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoichiometry

I'm all for kicking the ragheads in the nuts and not sending them anymore $$ but we need to find/seek the proper solution. This is the USA, we didn't to be the world superpower by taking the easy way out.

Widespread use of coal is something i'd expect china to come up with. its cookbook engineering/science. if the US (read you and me) really wants to keep its place as THE world leader it will find the proper solution - one that is renewable/sustainable, non-bad guy reliant and doesn't pollute the heck out of the air. Again I'm no tree hugger, and what that solution is i have no clue (I was only a C average engineering student).

I can tell you that a start would be to take the economist/bizz degree bean counters out from the head positions at energy related companies. replace them with bill gates dorky science loving people who care about the science instead of the bottom line/quick buck.

I bet this project was started by some engineering related AF bean counter that told some dedicated science/engineer people at WP to regurgitate this from some old german research pre WW2.

The Air Force COS's intent was to be able to fly warplanes even if our external petroleum supplies were cut off. The secondary objective was to stabilize fuel costs. Synthetic jet juice can probably be had for somewhere between $100-200 per bbl, once large-scale production begins.

This program has nothing to do with environmentalism or overall energy policy...it's just a fuel supply, not an energy source.

Environmentally speaking, sythnetic jet fuel produces fewer of some pollutants, but produces more CO2.


The good news for us is that once commercial operators start making enough synthetic fuel for the AF, the airlines could start buying it too...if the price of oil gets much higher.

This has been done in the B52 and C17 fleets. The C17 fleet test was especially significant because of the commonality between the C17 engines and the engines in airline fleets. According to a press release from the Edwards AFB public affairs office, the AF is implying hopes a commercial carrier will become more interested in this blended fuel.

According to an article from the Republican Herald in Gilberton PA (?), the AF bought 290,000 gallons of the synthetic fuel blend at $3.41 per gallon. It seems the hope is the more this blend is used, the more the cost goes down.

Another article, from ALPA's Air Line Pilot (March 2007) says tests of the JP8-synjet blend reduced particulate emissions by 20-40 per-cent and no "leakage in the test engines." This is important because O-ring seals require carbon compounds to work properly.

We're not currently able to fly current airplanes without carbon fuels. We can operate with a synthetic fuel blended with JP8 (and Jet A?). Unfortunately, ethanol is not a viable replacement for Jet A or JP8.

FWIW, an ethanol based fuel won't be a viable alternative for 100LL avgas.

Fly safe!

 

[FirstMate]

The sandbox has only two exports worth notice...terrorists and crude oil.

and dates too! mmmmm....

 

[clr4theapch]

With the so called demand for fuel, I am shocked everyday while driving on the interstate to see almost everyone FAR exceeding the 70 mph speed limits.. I just bought a the New 08 Ford Taurus becuae it gets outstanding fuel milage especially from 65 to 70mph.. 32 mpg.. this is a full size car.. of course if I get up and cruise with the packs at 80+ I get 23 to 24 mpg..

I just think its time for people to wake up the see that most could get much better gas milage by leaving earlier and driving slower.. its worth 25% increase... JMHO, butt dont blame anyone else for these prices unless everyone is doing their part to reduce the demand at the pumps..