SWAPA Transition and Integration Committee

[Dan Roman]

Dan why do spend all your time hating SWA on this forum? Get out, enjoy life.

I've never "hated SWA", in fact I've defended them on here. As I've said before, they are good at what they do.
I do call out some of the SWA guys who are consistantly disparaging all things not SWAPA or thinking they are going to kick everyone elses ass.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Guess I struck a cord. I've followed this and any other merger strings because I'm interested in any merger. Although Kentuckies is pure flame bate and his comment about "needing the aircraft" is ludicriously ignorant on several levels. the reality is anyone can get bought out by anyone. Hawaiian could be "bought" by someone else as could SWA. We are all in play.

Wasn't Flame Bait, it's what I heard jumping on Airways last week, I posted it somewhere else with one of your threads, but I never saw a reply... I love it how you are constantly hammering SW but as soon as someone repeats a rumor heard about your precious airline, It's Ludicrous and Flame bait!

Trust me, we don't need your kind of defense!
KBB

 

[ivauir]

I've never "hated SWA",

Really? That is all we've been seeing for 6 months. Not even one defense. In fact non stop open attacks is more like it.

 

[Dan Roman]

Wasn't Flame Bait, it's what I heard jumping on Airways last week, I posted it somewhere else with one of your threads, but I never saw a reply... I love it how you are constantly hammering SW but as soon as someone repeats a rumor heard about your precious airline, It's Ludicrous and Flame bait!

Trust me, we don't need your kind of defense!
KBB

Funny, because right below the post you are talking about I posted the following response............



"Your right about us being isolated from rumors, I get mine from Flight Info!
Actually I heard that one and it already got squashed by their CEO pretty soundly in a company Q and A. We hear Delta and Alaska rumors much more often. The most recent one was AK was going to operate us as a separate company. I actually heard the same thing about SWA too.
The reality is Hawaiian Air is the States largest employer (after the Government of course!) and letting it become a part of a mainland company could be problematic politically to say the least. Hawaiian would not be cheap to buy, with a very strong balance sheet and over 300 mil cash on hand. However you are right, with creative financing anyone can buy anyone. Wasn't USAir trying to buy Delta? The other reality is Hawaiian is very successful being Hawaiian Airlines to Hawaii. Our Asia routes are proving to be doing even better than anticipated and we have no problem filling up widebodies to the mainland. People like to start their vacations to Hawaii on Hawaiian Air. Were you to paint Alaska, USAir, Delta etc on the airplanes and lose our local feel they would be spending a lot of money just to have a few more routes that they can fly anyway. Also, they would lose the competitive advantage Hawaiian has being "Hawaiian".

All that said, the only thing we know for sure is everything will change in this business. It really boils down to money talks. There was a time when Piedmont had as good employee relations as SWA does now. Piedmont and USAir were two of the financially strongest in the industry when they merged. We all work in the screwiest industry around. I heard even PanAm is having financial troubles (we are a little isolated out here)."

 

[Dan Roman]

Really? That is all we've been seeing for 6 months. Not even one defense. In fact non stop open attacks is more like it.

Sorry you think that. Look at my posts again and you will not see any derogatory comments about SWA. The only thing I say about them them is SWA is very good at doing what it does. I don't think that that's much of an attack. What I don't buy is the "SWA is great and everyone else sucks" mentality or we can kick everyone's ass comments. Also I don't buy the SWAPA rules ALPA sucks mantra, a union is only as good as the people involved make it, we're ALPA and relatively small, yet we have done very well with ALPA. In fact, I would say we rival SWAPA in protecting pilot interests as well as helping the company grow and be profitable.

As per this post, all I commented was if Bob Dylan's posts were in fact accurate, as SWA/CA proposed, you guys would be in for a civil war just like USAir. Pretty realistic observation and one I think most of the SWA folks would agree with.

Communicating on web boards is quite different than face to face as you can't explain a comment in real time. It's way to easy to misunderstand. But I must say an awful lot of SWA folks need to get on here and put down others to try and justify SWA. You have a good airline, but anything can happen. Piedmont was a lot like you (very strong employee/management relations and one of the financially strongest airlines in the industry) before they merged with USAir. USAir was very financially fit too. Yet look at them now. As I've said, anything can happen in this industry. We are all pawns. For example Hawaiians largest stockholder is Fidelity Investments. Frankly, I don't know enough about the investment world to draw any definitive conclusions from that other than we could easily be in play with anyone. (when the Alaska rumors were out there it was also framed Hawaiian was buying them). Investment firms have more money than all the airlines combined. They can take any airline they want and match it up with any other airline if they think it will reap a profit. And.... they could care less about the employees.

 

[waveflyer]

Ahh yes-
"the Internet- never before have so many people with so little to say, said so much, to so few."

 

[Ty Webb]

Ahh yes-
"the Internet- never before have so many people with so little to say, said so much, to so few."

"Flightinfo . . . so many experts, so little knowledge".


-Tyroleus Webb, Philosophizer, Womanizer, Scrutinizer

 

[Dan Roman]

LOL, says two guys with 8000 posts between them (insert little smiley face here, how do you guys do that?)

Seriously, what have I said that isn't true? I'm not saying anything derogatory about SWA, I just don't buy some of the over the top "we rule, you suck" mentality that is so prevalent on here by the SWA folks.

 

[Dan Roman]

and what started this, surely you don't disagree with the assumption that if Bob Dylan was right, (staple etc) you would have a civil war on your hands?

 

[Bill Nelson]

I think the fight will leave the 1700 new millionaires before it ever really got started.

 

[Ty Webb]

I can't speak for Wave, but I'm just commenting in general . . . . FI was an enjoyable place for many years, lately, not so much . . .

I don't think your posts are inflammatory, Dan, I've seen much much worse stuff from folks that I'll probably be working alongside in the next couple of years.

And, yes, the only idiots still waving their red swinglines that I can see are Milton and Dylan . . . I think most of us know we're both going to have to have to come up with something we can all live with so we can put this behind us and keep moving forward.

Regards,
TW

 

[tankerhead]

I think the fight will leave the 1700 new millionaires before it ever really got started.

Dude, there's no fight in at least 1500 of us. We're pleased as punch, ready to play ball, and kill kittens for Herb. The AAI 10 percenter hard-core types can make spoons with your corndog 10 percenter hard-core types and the rest of us can enjoy the ride ahead.

 

[SWA/FO]

Dude, there's no fight in at least 1500 of us. We're pleased as punch, ready to play ball, and kill kittens for Herb. The AAI 10 percenter hard-core types can make spoons with your corndog 10 percenter hard-core types and the rest of us can enjoy the ride ahead.

Spread the word. However, I think its more then 10%

 

[400ADude]

Dude, there's no fight in at least 1500 of us. We're pleased as punch, ready to play ball, and kill kittens for Herb. The AAI 10 percenter hard-core types can make spoons with your corndog 10 percenter hard-core types and the rest of us can enjoy the ride ahead.

You can only fight with what you bring to the fight. Critter doesn't bring much.

 

[Ty Webb]

Dude, there's no fight in at least 1500 of us. We're pleased as punch, ready to play ball, and kill kittens for Herb. The AAI 10 percenter hard-core types can make spoons with your corndog 10 percenter hard-core types and the rest of us can enjoy the ride ahead.

The Fifth Column has arrived ... and right on time.

 

[waveflyer]

LOL, says two guys with 8000 posts between them (insert little smiley face here, how do you guys do that?)

Seriously, what have I said that isn't true? I'm not saying anything derogatory about SWA, I just don't buy some of the over the top "we rule, you suck" mentality that is so prevalent on here by the SWA folks.

Oh that quote definitely applies to me. I choose FI for one reason- let's me work out my own thoughts on things and keeps me from logging into a site with my real name next to it- cathartic, nothing more-

As for whether or not your post was true--- I fell asleep about a third of the way through it--
Sorry
But it's not my opinion that the people working at other airlines suck- though some do have a beaten dog syndrome- it's the companies and their leaders that DO SUCK. by every definition Swa is a thoroughly better place to work. I don't run from that, you may disagree, but I've worked at 6 airlines 3 of which codeshared with 5 of the legacies - i don't say it out of ignorance- unless you appreciate management retention programs being implemented just months after severe paycuts....
You defend those companies and you consent to and defend the lack of integrity and outrageous actions that airline execs have chose to do for years. At least be honest about it.

 

[Dan Roman]

As for whether or not your post was true--- I fell asleep about a third of the way through it--
Sorry
. by every definition Swa is a thoroughly better place to work..

You should have seen it before I edited out a couple sentences! I thought it seemed pretty long too. It's very easy to post something and have it misunderstood, I was simply trying to tread lightly while still making a post. Hence the long drawn out explanation.

 

[Dan Roman]

- i don't say it out of ignorance- unless you appreciate management retention programs being implemented just months after severe paycuts....
You defend those companies and you consent to and defend the lack of integrity and outrageous actions that airline execs have chose to do for years. At least be honest about it.

We are not that far apart here. My airline has had it's share of up's and downs with mangement as it's grown but most of us are cautiosly optimistic about the current regime. You would find very few here that don't like their job as much as the typical SWA employee. I agree some of what has gone on is criminal at a lot of airlines.
Just be wary it can happen to anyone. SWA has done a good job so far doing one type of flying with a great business plan. It can all change. Not saying it will, just that it can, quite easily.

 

[redflyer65]

Great post waveflyer.

 

[waveflyer]

I agree Dan- and keep that in mind anytime someone tells me I've "arrived" - I certainly hope I have- but it'll take a LOT of work on all our parts AND a management as good as the past and current to keep it that way.