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SWAPA Info packet FEDEXed to all AirTran Pilots

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Im comparing an 8 year AAI pilot to an 8 year SWA pilot.. Simple as that. Thats as apples to apples as you can get! SWAPA forgets that AAI pilots have been dealing with probably the toughest airline management there is for the last 5 years. SK taught us a lot. Unfortunatley SWAPA doesn't seem to realize that AAI pilots have been down this road. Thier propoganda will only unite the AAI pilot group. Contracts are short term, seniority is forever. Im pretty sure not too long ago DAL and UAL guys made a hell of a lot more then AAI guys do. Not so much any more! Their contracts changed, but not thier seniority!
 
gt1900 said:
Heck, for that matter, lets compare wages when SWA was 17 years old vs Airtan when they were 17 years old? Doesn't that seem like a fair comparison??
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Not that it is at all relevant, but back during our last contract negotiation we did a study on how our pay had kept up with inflation over the life of the airline. The finding was that it was pretty linear in lock step with inflation dating back to the 70's, fluctuating only a percent or two to the positive or negative side, depending on what point in time you were looking at. So our pay compared to yours at the 17 year mark would be the same at the same ratio as it is today. It also says that we're still as poorly paid as we have ever been.
 
gt1900 said:
Look.. Im not a blow hard union freek at all. But this letter was total BS. It was a letter that compared average and individual pay scales with what we make at AAI vs what we would make at SWA. Its a total BS propaganda that went around the negotiations that are taking place. I will soon be a member of SWAPA, and if this is the type of crap they are going to pull, Im very weary of what we are getting into. Does SWAPA not have any idea what kind of propoganda B.S. AAI pilots had to deal with when we were in contract talks? IMO they are complete IDIOTS for sending this out. Besides the fact that the info is incacurate. Why not compare average pay per year? Probably because they would see that our 7th, 8th, and 9th year guys make very close to what their's do. Hopefully, AAI guys are smart enough to realize that the average AAI FO has been at AAI for 3-4 years vs the average SWA FO who has ben there for 5-7 years. Heck, for that matter, lets compare wages when SWA was 17 years old vs Airtan when they were 17 years old? Doesn't that seem like a fair comparison??

I have a feeling this letter will get the exact opposite intendid reaction! WOW!
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So this is your attitude? Swapa being idiots? Thats cool. You ready to burn the house down! SWA can't train attitude.
 
gt1900 said:
Im comparing an 8 year AAI pilot to an 8 year SWA pilot.. Simple as that. Thats as apples to apples as you can get! SWAPA forgets that AAI pilots have been dealing with probably the toughest airline management there is for the last 5 years. SK taught us a lot. Unfortunatley SWAPA doesn't seem to realize that AAI pilots have been down this road. Thier propoganda will only unite the AAI pilot group. Contracts are short term, seniority is forever. Im pretty sure not too long ago DAL and UAL guys made a hell of a lot more then AAI guys do. Not so much any more! Their contracts changed, but not thier seniority!
Click to expand...


So comparing a 4 yr AAI FO at 86/hr versus a SW at 117/hr is 'very close' in your book? That's a 35 percent pay increase!

Similiar at year 11 on the captain's payscale.....and I'm using your new 'Southwest acquired' rates, not the original scale from Sept 26th.
 
Just a FYI. I am a 5th year F/O and I made $178,000 in 2010. I think that is pretty good.

I really don't understand what the big stink is about with this mailer. We get things like this all the time from our company. If the company and union are sending out joint communiques to help the AAI pilots be more informed then all the better. Also, I can't imagine the company endorsing ANYTHING that they would consider inaccurate or propaganda.
 
gt1900 said:
Im comparing an 8 year AAI pilot to an 8 year SWA pilot.. Simple as that. Thats as apples to apples as you can get! SWAPA forgets that AAI pilots have been dealing with probably the toughest airline management there is for the last 5 years. SK taught us a lot. Unfortunatley SWAPA doesn't seem to realize that AAI pilots have been down this road. Thier propoganda will only unite the AAI pilot group. Contracts are short term, seniority is forever. Im pretty sure not too long ago DAL and UAL guys made a hell of a lot more then AAI guys do. Not so much any more! Their contracts changed, but not thier seniority!
Click to expand...


Gt,

Dude. Take a deep breath. You're not dealing with your old management team anymore and nobody's trying to screw you. Whatever SK "taught" you will definitely not play at your new home, so try and let it go. Remember, a lot of us at SWA have also "been down that road" at other airlines. I'm one of 'em, and I can speak from experience when I say that this place doesn't work the same way. Let the NC's do their work and try not to read too much into what you got in the mail.

Deep breathes, bro.
 
Good Times

I really hope your right. BUT, SWAPA should have known the past of AAI pilots negotiations before they sent that mailer out. I could copy and past AAI management's name on top with lower payscales telling us how we should take a pay cut, and none of us would have questioned where it came from. To the aveage AAI pilot it looks like SWAPA is telling us we should accept a much lower seniority because the pay will be better. I think they missed their mark, and I think its going to backfire. Trust me, 90% of the AAI pilots know exactly what the guys at SWA are making. We have all read over the contract many times. IMO this was a HUGE mistake by SWAPA and I beliee it came across completly the wrong way. Im pretty moderate, but I can only imagine the response from the hard core guys.. It ain't going to be pretty. SWAPA should negotiate with AAI ALPA.. Trust me, the guys at AAI have seen AAI management try the same tactic with our pilot group before. Thats why its so alarming.
 
IMO this was a HUGE mistake by SWAPA and I beliee it came across completly the wrong way. Im pretty moderate, but I can only imagine the response from the hard core guys.. It ain't going to be pretty. SWAPA should negotiate with AAI ALPA.. Trust me, the guys at AAI have seen AAI management try the same tactic with our pilot group before. Thats why its so alarming.
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I called my domicile rep this evening out of curiosity. I wanted to hear it from the horses mouth and he told me that the positive response for the AirTran pilots today has been overwhelming. He said they have been getting thank you emails all day long. I guess that speaks louder than the few guys here on Flight Info.

It seems the majority just want to get this done and get over to Southwest and be done with AirTran and ALPA for good.
 
Bill Nelson said:
I called my domicile rep this evening out of curiosity. I wanted to hear it from the horses mouth and he told me that the positive response for the AirTran pilots today has been overwhelming. He said they have been getting thank you emails all day long. I guess that speaks louder than the few guys here on Flight Info.

It seems the majority just want to get this done and get over to Southwest and be done with AirTran and ALPA for good.
Click to expand...

That's great news.
 
Gt,

Sincerely sorry you had to live through the nightmare of a devious and disingenuous management team. It sucks bad. I know. Those days are over.........forever. The NC's will do their work. We'll all educate ourselves. We'll vote. And we'll move ahead. Deep breathes.
 
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Frank Lorenzo tried the same tactic of direct negotiations with the Continental pilots, sometimes calling them personally; often pilots who had vulnerabilities like a family member with a serious illness. Sorry, but my Merger Committee speaks for me, but in the meantime, you stay classy, SWAPA!
 
Kharma Police said:
Frank Lorenzo tried the same tactic of direct negotiations with the Continental pilots, sometimes calling them personally; often pilots who had vulnerabilities like a family member with a serious illness. Sorry, but my Merger Committee speaks for me, but in the meantime, you stay classy, SWAPA!
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Now we're being compared to good ole Frank..... You should just quit now. You'll be much happier. We will be too.
 
Kharma Police said:
Sorry, but my Merger Committee speaks for me, but in the meantime, you stay classy, SWAPA!
Click to expand...

Your MC may speak for you, but I'm hearing that quite a few of your pilots have sent positive feedback to SWAPA. Its seems they have decided to speak for themselves.

BTW, classy is how we roll!
 
Southwest and SWAPA have a close relationship. We get mail all the time from the Company, Gary's battle plan etc... This is no big deal. It sounds like they want to give you a good idea what to expect, once you are here. I recently read Jordan's letter saying he wants a smooth transition.. this is part of that, he is reaching out.

I know, I've been information starved too, so SWA wants you to know what to expect, and now its bad?

Take it for what its worth, information.
 
Kharma Police said:
I was as happy on September 26th as I am today. Unfortunately for you, you fail to realize that money can't buy you respect or happiness. Good luck to you!
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Are we drunk posting?

I know how good I, and you're gonna have it when you get over here.

You were really reaching with the Frank L. comparison. Geez, you're in for a huge career boost, and you act like we're the enemy here. You CAN'T lose if you make it to our list.

Were you even in the industry when EAL was on strike? I was, and uncomfortably close to the issue on a few occasions. Please tell me you aren't one of the many scabs that made their way over to VJ.
 
MILF Hunter said:
Your MC may speak for you, but I'm hearing that quite a few of your pilots have sent positive feedback to SWAPA. Its seems they have decided to speak for themselves.

BTW, classy is how we roll!
Click to expand...

Interesting, considering most of the Southwest pilots on this board had no idea what we were talking about. SWAPA must be working overtime on Friday night to have collected the data and let you guys know about the HUNDREDS of AirTran e-mails real quick, right?!?!
 
Kharma Police said:
Frank Lorenzo tried the same tactic of direct negotiations with the Continental pilots, sometimes calling them personally; often pilots who had vulnerabilities like a family member with a serious illness. Sorry, but my Merger Committee speaks for me, but in the meantime, you stay classy, SWAPA!
Click to expand...

Wow, you get a letter from your future management team and you compare them to Lorenzo?

Very nice.

Do you really think that the email response from the AAI pilots wasn't immediate? The BOD/reps are pretty well connected 24/7.
 
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redflyer65 said:
Wow, you get a letter from your future management team and you compare them to Lorenzo?

Very nice.
Click to expand...

I read it, puked all over it, then set it on fire and urinated on it.

Nice try. My MC speaks for me.
 
Is that you crying in your avtar?
 
Tripower455 said:
Are we drunk posting?

I know how good I, and you're gonna have it when you get over here.

You were really reaching with the Frank L. comparison. Geez, you're in for a huge career boost, and you act like we're the enemy here. You CAN'T lose if you make it to our list.

Were you even in the industry when EAL was on strike? I was, and uncomfortably close to the issue on a few occasions. Please tell me you aren't one of the many scabs that made their way over to VJ.
Click to expand...

Southwest Airlines sounds like a wonderful place and I'm looking forward to working for such a great company. I understand that SWAPA is trying to protect its members interests, however, they have left me scratching my head at times questioning their tactics and motives.

Also, I was still in grade school when Eastern went on strike.
 
Well maybe you guys can get ALPA to send us a mass mailing, although I have no idea what they would have to say. I wouldn't even bother to open the envelope.
 

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