SWAPA "AIP reached with Company"

[Flopgut]

More bragging about codeshare


Love you man How about giving up some 737 or A319s.

You're confused about the kind of codeshare I'm talking about.

 

[Flopgut]

Not sure you know what "organic growth" means. Neeleman's (and other majors, for that matter) penchant for codeshare and farming out flying to cheaper operators is growth that is the exact friggin' opposite of "organic." Sure it grows the company's bottom line, but it does so while leaving your own workforce stagnant. On the other hand, actually hiring more employees, and doing all your growth flying yourself, IS growth that is "organic" in nature. That's what we prefer, and our current scope clause requires it. Our position is that any flying that we're capable of doing, should be done by us.

Bubba

I'm talking about hanging out their shingle, flying A to B, and competing for business. Knowing how to fully operate their equipment and not needing a political situation to sustain them. Thats organic IMO.

Imagine what SWA could/should have learned from ATA. That would have been a lot of flying and growth, but instead SWA stole the playbook on precious little and ran with it. Couldn't even recognize or understand what was there.

My point was affiliation is different than outsourcing. You guys don't get it and I'm done talking about it. Good luck. Btw this is really the only test your section 1 has ever had. If you pass this turd you're looking at right now, then you never had scope to begin with.

 

[HowardBorden]

I'm talking about hanging out their shingle, flying A to B, and competing for business. Knowing how to fully operate their equipment and not needing a political situation to sustain them. Thats organic IMO...My point was affiliation is different than outsourcing. You guys don't get it and I'm done talking about it.

Really!?!? Your honestly going to lecture about hanging out a shingle and flying A to B? You keep talking about "doing the work". Who is doing the work when 68% of flights are outsourced?

"The famous airline names you know and think that you're booking -American, Delta, United, US Airways - may not actually be running the aircraft. In 2011, a cumulative 61 percent of the advertised flights for those four airlines were operated by code-sharing regional carriers. That's up from just 40 percent in the year 2000. The biggest outsourcer? United Airlines, where 68 percent of flights were operated by other carriers in June 2012, doubled its code-share rate from 2000. Sixty-seven percent of US Airways' flights were operated by others in June 2012, up from 49 percent in 2000. At Delta Air Lines, it's 59 percent now versus 40 percent in 2000. At American Airlines, roughly half the flights are outsourced, up from 40 percent in 2000."

Yes, affiliation is different than outsourcing but has an equal detrimental effect to the potential organic growth of an airline! Why fly airplanes at all? Why not just become a ticket brokerage?

"In 2009, after a 9.6 percent year-over-year decline, the industry workforce was at its nadir with just 513,000 employees. Since 2008, only two passenger carriers have added jobs: Southwest Airlines added 3,500 positions, and JetBlue Airways added 2,000 jobs. The government report does not cover airline-employee salaries, but all of the legacy airlines have been in Chapter 11 bankruptcy since then, and all demanded substantial salary and benefit concessions from passenger-facing employees."

This article was written in October 2012.

http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/blog/seat2B/2012/10/government-offers-air-travel-report.html

 

[SWA Bubba]

I'm talking about hanging out their shingle, flying A to B, and competing for business. Knowing how to fully operate their equipment and not needing a political situation to sustain them. Thats organic IMO.

Oh, I get it now. Redefine the word "organic" so that it means something completely different--what you want it to mean.

BTW, "...hanging out [our] shingle, flying A to B, and competing for business" is EXACTLY what Southwest has always done, and still does. Also, "not needing a political situation to sustain [us]," also perfectly describes Southwest's history.

Imagine what SWA could/should have learned from ATA. That would have been a lot of flying and growth, but instead SWA stole the playbook on precious little and ran with it. Couldn't even recognize or understand what was there.

Suppose you tell me what we "could/should have learned from ATA." because I'm not sure I can see it. Their business model was predicated on two basic things: Hawaiian tourism through their "Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays" setup, and military charters. How'd that turn out for them, Flop? Competitors ate into their Hawaii gig, and they finally had to pull the plug on the rest of their entire operation when the military canceled their charter contract. Putting your company's financial future on the continued business of a single customer (the military) doesn't sound like a sound business move to me. Is that what you think we should have "learned"?

t get it and I'm done talking about it. Good luck. Btw this is really the only test your section 1 has ever had. If you pass this turd you're looking at right now, then you never had scope to begin with.

"[SWA] never had scope to begin with." That's pretty funny coming from you, Flop-a company that farms out 2/3 of their domestic flying to cheaper pilots. We currently have the strongest scope section of any major in this country (and probably the world), bar NONE. No codeshare, no alter-egos, no subcontracted flying, NOTHING.

On the other hand, if this TA passes (although I'm personally voting 'no'), our new, weaker scope section will still be stronger than yours, and every other major in the US. It will still prohibit all domestic codeshare and subcontracting. Lemme know when you achieve that, and then you can lecture Southwest on codeshare, and how "good" it is for union pilots. Okay?

Bubba

 

[Flopgut]

BTW, "...hanging out [our] shingle, flying A to B, and competing for business" is EXACTLY what Southwest has always done, and still does. Also, "not needing a political situation to sustain [us]," also perfectly describes Southwest's history
Bubba

You could fertilize every tillable acre of Texas with the BS your airline has needed to create to stay afloat

Look I was trying to help you guys. You're at a point where mgt is going to get some version of what they want. There is flying to be done that you can't do, and it's your own hubris that precludes it. Vote this down, steer GK into affiliations that will benefit you. Or don't! I don't care if you get it together or not

 

[Flopgut]

In fairness, jetBlue - with 42 airline partnerships - has an upgrade time of under 3 years right now.

That's a good thing. Kind of what I'm trying to speak to.

Howard and/or Bubba: Forget your distaste for me for a sec, speak to this post

 

[HowardBorden]

That's a good thing. Kind of what I'm trying to speak to.

Howard and/or Bubba: Forget your distaste for me for a sec, speak to this post

JetBlue is a great airline but I don't see much of a comparison.

JB is certainly not a mature airline and is growing, great for them.

At 17 years SWA was growing rapidly too, often at a rate of more than 10% a year.

Are you trying to link their growth to partnerships with 42 airlines?

 

[Flopgut]

I'm trying to say that to flourish in the kind of international you're embarking on, SWA should entertain some similar affiliations. Vote this down in the context of coming right back with something like what GK wants. He'll get a warm fuzzy, you get the yes votes to understand a "no" is necessary on this current deal. The current deal is NOT good for your growth at all

 

[tankerhead]

The current deal is NOT good for your growth at all

Plenty of growth coming at Hobby. That's in Houston, you know. ?

 

[Just thinking]

I wonder why.........
Why PJ subverted the BOD and directed the NC to ignore the BOD's direction?
Why SWAPA can't even get the sales info in the glossy brochure correct?
Why crappy ole Air Tran had better reserve rules?
Why crappy ole Air Tran could pay 11.5% into 401 with no match required?
Why I could refuse a JA event at AT but now I have to cover their inabilities to properly schedule the pilots on clear weather days? (Does anyone really believe the company is going to be able to handle subsets without severely affecting the QOL of pilots?
Why the kompany is building a hostile work environment with all of the employee groups?
Why all the former union stooges have piled onto the band wagon like a bunch of circus clown to tout the gains of this TA?
Why a redeye was worth a 15% override when SWA did not do them but now that they will do them it is only worth a 3% override?
Why Amadeus/Altea is projecting BILLIONS in future revenue and Romo states publicly that the future code share/interline agreements will be worth hundreds of millions and the NC sells this POS TA as a gain when it does not make the pilots whole for the money that has been lost over the past three years?
Why the NC allows themselves to play into the kompany's hand on every section with minimal gains?
Why every domicile reps (other than the PHX kernel klub jackanapes) are voting no?

Delta has 16% +16% on top of every penny that they earn. We get to fund 10% to get 10% match and a floating value on the profit sharing that goes into the 401 until IRS limits are exceeded and then we get the leftover change. Of course none of that comes into play if your life circumstance do not allow you to contribute the full 10%. Skewed towards the captains side of the pilot list and totally craps on the junior pilots.

Get called into chief pilots office to resolve an issue (pay is supposed to be 5 tfp) now they are enticed to write a letter for your file and save the kompany 4 hours of pay......WTF? How stupid can the NC be? How stupid can PJ be? Do they think that this will fix the LGA nose wheel types? ....(hey there Cappy..... We see that you are on the avoidance list quite frequently and it is costing us a premium because all of the FOs are calling out sick when they have to fly with you. We have to pay premium to get some sucker to do this flight. Here is a letter of concern and we are going put this in your file and only pay you for one hour of your time. Now get outta here you little rascal.)

As one of the FAT pilots that lost seniority and a captain seat I have worked very hard to replace the lost earnings from the transition. I am able to do so and for that I am grateful but now the work rules are changing and a five dollar raise will quickly go by the wayside when the subset language sets in.
As you can probably guess I am voting NO.