SWA wants to fly from HOU to MEX and SouthAmerica

[outerlimits]

Flop is UAL putting on writing as in a contract all the promises u make ?

 

[Flopgut]

Flog is that going to be immediate? You sound so wise, are you a check airman too?

Look, its a big issue. There is a lot of communication going on. UAL is getting set to launch the 787, which we wanted to inaugurate in Houston. If the city splits the international airport up to artificially lift up a discounter? Why should any airline want to continue to pour effort and money into a city that does that? Why take your best equipment there? It's hard enough to get a 380 into any airport. The 787 will work better on a coast. The negative effect on Houston will be immediate. On the other hand, if you guys come up to IAH, there will pbly be even more widebodies and inaugural flights out of IAH.

 

[waveflyer]

And yet, where is the 380?
LAX, JFK, and SFO

All markets that serve multiple international airports.
And in the case of SFO, Houston is a larger market.

And 787's- their entire existence isn't about filling large aircraft, but heading nonstop to smaller ones.

 

[humveedriver]

Your lack of understanding is phenomenal. OF COURSE it includes Lufthansas product! You would be welcome to go to Frankfurt, just as you are welcome to use IAH. NO ONE is trying to avoid competing with you. SWA is trying to wreck IAH so they can pick up the scraps. You guys just want a handout.

Please explain to me how Lufthansa is affected? The Lufthansa passenger flies from Frankfort to IAH and then from IAH to L. America on United. Too easy. They never even have to look outside their window and see a canyon blue airplane.

If the Star Alliance pulls out of IAH, American and One World will step in.

 

[Flopgut]

And yet, where is the 380?
LAX, JFK, and SFO

All markets that serve multiple international airports.
And in the case of SFO, Houston is a larger market.

And 787's- their entire existence isn't about filling large aircraft, but heading nonstop to smaller ones.

CLAIM: Other metropolitan areas have experienced significant air service growth with multiple international airports.

THE FACTS: Performance in other markets such as New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington demonstrates that fractured markets remain flat while combined markets grow. In fact, studies show that, since 2008, cities with split international gateways actually lost airline service while cities with unified international gateways increased available international seats by 5 percent.

 

[Flopgut]

Please explain to me how Lufthansa is affected?

Each of the 12 airlines at IAH has the need to compete equally for the Houston customer that comes from South America. You get the terminal at HOU, there will be fewer IAH customers. No need to send your best equipment somewhere that you aren't allowed to compete equally for the customer.

 

[humveedriver]

Each of the 12 airlines at IAH has the need to compete equally for the Houston customer that comes from South America. You get the terminal at HOU, there will be fewer IAH customers. No need to send your best equipment somewhere that you aren't allowed to compete equally for the customer.

Still not buying it. That passenger is essentially landlocked at Hobby. They are not forced to fly on SWA. They would choose the airline that provides the appropriate service for their needs. Believe it or not I actually buy tickets about twice a year. I buy the ticket that gets me where I need to go with the fewest moving pieces, closest to my destination and then price. In others words L. American passengers would fly on SWA to get to the United States. Not to go to Germany on an A380. Those passengers will fly to IAH. Everyone wins!

 

[SWA Bubba]

CLAIM: Other metropolitan areas have experienced significant air service growth with multiple international airports.

THE FACTS: Performance in other markets such as New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington demonstrates that fractured markets remain flat while combined markets grow. In fact, studies show that, since 2008, cities with split international gateways actually lost airline service while cities with unified international gateways increased available international seats by 5 percent.

Okay, this one you made up. Show us the studies that were NOT created by United. Make sure you can show that the air service was lost due to actually having more than one international gateway, instead of other economic factors (I suppose that the fact the country's been in a recession since 2008 with ridiculous oil prices has nothing to do with anything).

The rest of your "Claim" and "The Facts" above are not actual facts at all; they're United's talking points. I'm not saying that SWA's lawyers and lobbyists haven't emphasized their point of view, but some of the crap United is spouting borders on the ridiculous. If 20 or 25 near-international 737 flights per day out of Hobby will cripple United, Luftansa, and other international airlines (not to mention the city of Houston itself), then I'd say United's grip on its own existence (and its business model) are as tenuous as your grip on reality.

When SWA gets to fly its 20-25 international flights per day out of HOU, I suppose we'll all have to watch sadly as United pulls out of IAH, and enters a death spiral, taking the city with it.

Or not. Perhaps United can find a way to survive the onslaught, and sell seats on its airplanes even with having a little competition with our mighty 737s. <insert wildly sarcastic emoticon here, please>

Good luck.

Bubba

 

[waveflyer]

As the "freehobby" people here are saying- rationality is out the window- barely even a factor- so if you haven't signed the petition- do so-

 

[Flopgut]

Still not buying it. That passenger is essentially landlocked at Hobby. They are not forced to fly on SWA. They would choose the airline that provides the appropriate service for their needs. Believe it or not I actually buy tickets about twice a year. I buy the ticket that gets me where I need to go with the fewest moving pieces, closest to my destination and then price. In others words L. American passengers would fly on SWA to get to the United States. Not to go to Germany on an A380. Those passengers will fly to IAH. Everyone wins!

The customer will no longer go to IAH at all! It only works if all the customers are there; IAH is to international travel as Las Vegas is to gambling. It's not LA or NYC, or Hong Kong. If the city forfeits the cream off the top to SWA, there is no reason to keep building up IAH into something it will no longer be. You'll see the same thing. SWA will make big dollars out of HOU, for a while. Then the big planes will leave IAH and go where their customers end up.

Houston has to decide if they are in the sun tan oil, or crude oil business.