SWA under fire for obesity policy

[TurboS7]

What do you do when the captain takes up more than his share of the flight deck. SWA just needs to get a first class cabin for obese people.

 

[jetexas]

Check out http://www.airlinemeals.net . Maybe thats why so many pax are overweight. Some of these meals are pretty big. Take a look at Eagle's meal. Pretty extravagant, especially on those DFW - MKE hauls!
Check out Aer Lingus.

 

[VFR on Top]

The attitudes some of you people display disgust me. This is the transportation industry we're talking about here; airlines don't sell seats, they sell "passage". If that means they lose capacity to accommodate a passenger who's paid for passage, so be it. It's your place to fly the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** plane, not criticize the people who make your job possible.

 

[Freight Dog]

Hey Mr Private Pilot,

Let me explain something to you...

If we have a 350 lbs person aboard who takes two seats, and yet they only paid for one seat, and the flight is overbooked... then we either:

a) bump another paying passenger and give him compensation because a fat person is occupying two seats in which case airlines lose money.

b) charge the fat person for two seats and you pay the poor guy who gets left behind because a fatty takes up the whole row.

It's very simple, and it's been around the industry... except that it wasn't enforced. Now it is.. and I say... GOOD!!! About time!




----

Obesity is the leading cause of fat ass.

 

[TXflyer]

Hey sorry but when you buy a ticket, you are not buying a "fare" you are in effect leasing the seat from the airline. And if your ass is so big it take double the property on the plane, you must lease double the space. SIMPLE ECONOMICS, FAT ASSES.

 

[VFR on Top]

The ludicrousness of this subject lies in the number of seats we're talking about here; in the aggregate, it's an utterly insignificant number. Sure, the airlines MIGHT lose money by giving fat people the room they need (or, more likely, they'd just take one less non-rev passenger--which is probably the REAL source of everyone's gripes on this topic), but let's get serious--they lose far more money annually from all the cans of soda stolen by employees.

I'm sure many of you believe in this "seat-lease" idea, but the fact is, it doesn't hold water. Airlines hold themselves out to the public as "common carrier under contract for safe passage of passengers or for luggage and/or belongings"; ergo, what is being contracted for is safe passage of said persons--NOT 6 cubic feet (or whatever) of space. If you've got a legal cite stating otherwise, I'm all ears--but be warned, feeble attempts to compare d!ck size like Mr Self-important Trash Hauler tried ain't gonna hack it. I'm swayed by facts and sound reasoning, not by lofty certificates and hours in a logbook.

 

[Freight Dog]

Once again Mr. Private Pilot... you obviously have no clue about how non-rev situation works, nor does it seem you were ever left behind as a revenue passenger or a non-rev. I'll also skip the weak attempt to insult me as I can tell I'm talking to a 19 year old know-it-all.

Once ALL the paying passengers have boarded and that includes the large people, then you get non revs aboard in order of priority.

Once again, airlines sell SEATS, if your rear end is too big to fit into one so you require two, you are in effect ripping off an airline of putting another paying passenger in that seat especially if the flight is at or near capacity.

Let me put it to you another way...

You paid full fare, say $500 for your ticket on a flight that's booked to capacity which means no seats left - every seat is taken. Pre-boarding takes place, when all the people who need "a little extra time" to get set, then you go in there with the rest of the crowd.. and you see a fat lady taking both seats and you can't sit in there. The F/A's gave her the seatbelt extension so she could buckle up. Yet, now you can't fit in your seat, and you are getting denied boarding because of no seats left. But you HAVE to make your flight. Now what? You still get the boot, the fatty goes... so now the plane pushes from the gate and you are left behind fuming at the gate agent. You want to be on the next flight that leaves the following day in the morning. So now, the airline, in the interest of customer service has to accomodate you as well i.e. provide you with hotel room and a meal, in addition to give you something "for your troubles." So now, instead of airline making a profit on your ticket like it is supposed to, they lost revenue on the original flight because two seats were taken by ONE person, they pay you for your trouble, put you in a hotel, they are putting you on ANOTHER potentially full flight, and potentially bumping ANOTHER paying passenger all because of one fat person who could not fit in her seat. Now they'll have to accomodate the other guy they bump and the cycle goes on and on.

Airlines are not public utilities, they are FOR-PROFIT businesses, therefore it is entirely within their rights to conduct business as they see fit. If the people who cannot fit in a seat do not agree with airline's ways of conducting business they can either try on another airline or they can take the bus.


ALOHA!

 

[VFR on Top]

Your crystal ball fails you, dude. Having previously worked for an airline, I *do* know how non-rev travel works, I *have* been left behind as a revenue pax (and almost left behind as a non-rev), and I'm far older and wiser than the 19 year-old know-it-all you imagine me to be. As to skipping the weak attempt to insult you, what do you call the "Mr Private Pilot" crack other than a weak attempt to put me in "my" place? Grow up already.

As I said, I'm all ears if you've got rational argument and legal cites to back it up; instead, what you offer is your views based on your decidedly limited experience base as a regional FO. YOUR know-it-all attitude is a dangerous one, bro--for the safety of your passengers, I suggest you accept that a year or two in the right seat of a Dash 8 doesn't teach you everything there is to know about the air transportation industry.

Now, to your points; do you really think that when it comes time to bump a rev passenger that the fare that pax paid isn't taken into consideration? What about the reverse? Suppose the fat lady paid full-fare and the person next to her used frequent flier miles?

You're slightly correct in that airlines are for-profit businesses, but they're a lot more akin to the public utilities than to your local FootLocker. Why? Because they are a vital part of our national infrastructure, which the American economy is dependent upon. This is why the federal government provided handouts to the major airlines post-9/11. This is why no labor group at any major will ever be permitted to strike again (at least, certainly not with this president). Deregulation notwithstanding, it's also why they operate within a certain set of parameters to be allowed to maintain their operator certificate.

You may be firmly set in your opinion that airlines sell seats, but this opinion has little basis in anything other than your own reasoned observations during your decidedly limited exposure to the airline industry. When this thing is challenged in court, as it inevitably will be, I assure you the courts will not allow the airlines to levy a "fat tax" on passengers who require more space than the mythical average 170 lb passenger.

You want to become a true airline professional? Have you read the Air Commerce Act? How 'bout the Civil Aeronautics Act? Or even the Airline Deregulation Act? Read up on the laws which govern your industry--and I mean beyond the FARs--then come back and tell me that the airlines merely sell "seats".

 

[Timebuilder]

Hmmm. Two pages of posts about a simple matter. Add to that a week of fodder for talk radio.

When I was a child, the DC-3 was still a popular transport aircraft. After my first flight in a Cessna at age 11, I became a passenger on US airlines, and spent quite a few hours as a customer. If I recall, the 707 was the state of the art. I think I am therefore able to comment on this.

I can't tell you how many times I experienced the body of a sweaty individual "flowing" over into my seat like a flow of lava. I paid for a seat on a plane, and that seat was sufficient to my need. Often the person next to me was occupying a portion of the space for which I had paid. Were the seat provided not sufficient for me, I would expect to pay an additional amount, much like when I wish to mail a letter that is greater than one ounce, or ship a package that is going to require additional resourses for the shipping company.

Everyone at Southwest will be more comfortable if they can be properly served, and they should expect to properly pay for the service they require.

Simple.

 

[TurboS7]

I guess the airlines could just let that extra part that hangs over non-rev.

 

[Freight Dog]

I don't mean to get personal Mr Private Pilot (Pvt-ASEL), but you seem mighty defensive about the whole fat issue. If you are 300 pounds of sexy, wabbly, lob of cellulite that flaps off the walls that just can't squeeze in one seat that requires two, then I can understand - I'd be upset with that too. If that's what it truly is, don't vent your anger at me for agreeing with the policy that's been in place before and never enforced until now.

If that's the problem... there's Jenny Craig.


Difference of opinion is the beauty of this country.

 

[bigD]

Having previously worked for an airline, I *do* know how non-rev travel works...

I don't mean to split hairs kid, but I'm not sure that flying the line on a virtual airline applies here.

 

[VFR on Top]

Nope--real airline, pop. Ramp rat for TWA in the late '80s while I was in college.

 

[Tim47SIP]

PP Dood, Lighten up!

I understand where you are coming from, but things arent always black and white.
Quote - "You want to become a true airline professional? Have you read the Air Commerce Act? How 'bout the Civil Aeronautics Act? Or even the Airline Deregulation Act? Read up on the laws which govern your industry--and I mean beyond the FARs--then come back and tell me that the airlines merely sell "seats"."

Well, you may want to get all of the airlines in the industry to do the same, as you are implying that they know nothing about this.

"This is why no labor group at any major will ever be permitted to strike again (at least, certainly not with this president)."

And what President was in power when Comair struck? Hmm, let me think. If you stated the big 5 airlines, then I would have to agree with you, but if SW or Airtrans wanted to strike, they would get the chance.

I think there is more to this than stated above. I recently had a flight attendant call me to ask how many extensions someone could use. I went back to see why, and the individual had to sit in the middle of two seats. No way anyone was getting in the next seat. My initial reaction was not that we were going to lose a seat, but was how we were going to get the individual off of the aircraft in an emergency.
In ATL approx 12 months ago, there was an electrical fire in an ATR that caused smoke in the cabin. The aircraft was evacuated but with only one problem. A very large lady became stuck in the emergency exit opening. Pretty commical as the FA was pushing from inside the plane and the FO was pulling.

Untill aircraft are built to accomidate these very large individuals, there has to be a limit in size. Not just for the poor sole sitting next to them, but all of the passengers they may keep from evacuating in the event of an emergency.

 

[JimNtexas]

As someone who needs all 17.75" of seatwidth, I have to sympathize with the SWA folks. I've often watched in terror as someone "of size" comes down the asile, because I have no extra room to give if they are going to sit next to me.

Airlines can handle this problem in one of three ways. They can make it yet another battle in the War on Passengers, formerly know as "airline travel".

They can just ignore the problem, as they do the problem of carry-on steamer trunks and multiple lap children.

Or some airline somewhere is going to put wider seats in coach.

Mostly likely they will all continue to ignore the issue. Even SWA who is getting a black eye over this.

Jim

PS: Everytime I get on a SouthWest flight, there are only middle seats left anyway. Are they going to charge the size-imparied folks for 2 middle seats???????