SWA PIC Time

[erkens]

I was reading on southwest.com about how they determine PIC time.

Straight from the website:

"If both pilots are type rated, the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC."

Does this mean that these guys unfortunate enough to have been downgraded by cutbacks can count the legs they fly as PIC for SWA?

 

[Bake]

Yes, as long as you hold a type for that airplane.

 

[JJJ]

"If both pilots are type rated, the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC."

If you were downgraded, then you would be flying in the right seat. The requirement is to be type rated, sole manipulator, AND be in the left seat.

I say no.

According to this a check airman doing IOE for a capt couldn't count that PIC for SWA either.

 

[firstthird]

here is the entire subnote about logging PIC pulled from this page
http://www.southwest.com/careers/pilots.html

"*Southwest Airlines defines "Pilot in Command" as the Pilot responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight. This definition is taken from PART I of the FAR. Southwest Airlines further allows logging of PIC as follows: For an aircraft requiring a type rating: If both pilots are type rated, the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC. If only one pilot is type rated only that pilot may log PIC, regardless of seat position. For aircraft not requiring a type rating: Only the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC. For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot In Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged, as "Other Time" will not be considered. When converting taxi time a conversion factor of .3 or eighteen minutes, per leg/sortie should be used. These guidelines are imposed by Southwest Airlines for the purpose of standardizing the calculation of flight time. "

So, a check captain could log PIC since he is the Part I person responsible for the flight; it seems to me. It looks like they want Part I vs. the part 61.51 that the FAA uses for ATP type purposes. But, read it for yourself and make your own decision.

 

[N1atEcon]

Bottom line is who's name is on the flight release as PIC. That is the PIC. There is no gray area on that one.

 

[bigsky]

How about as "cruise captain"? That seems to imply if during long flights the captain goes back to bunk for 2 or 3 hours and I sit in the left seat it is loggable for SWA purposes? I am designated as s.i.c. on the release although that statement about sole manipulator from left seat seems to apply.

 

[erkens]

I agree that it is probably true that only captain time will qualify, but what is with the: "and sole manipulator of the controls" part. Almost makes it sound like only the legs the captain flys will qualify, unless both pilots can count the time.

I know I'm over analyzing it, but what else do I have to do.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

"Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft."

Primary time is AF time when you are flying the aircraft. In my old unit, ACs would fly about 2/3 of the time as Capt, and about 1/3 of the time as Co-pilot. So, it seems like you could log the SIC time as PIC when you were Primary (flying the plane) and you were rated as an AC in that aircraft. That doesn't seem to agree with the rest of their requirements. Maybe most AF guys only flew as Capt after they made Capt.

Cliff
DTW

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Okay gentlemen, yes or no question. I'm a type rated FO flying in the left seat of my jet, sole manipulator of the controls. Does this qualify as PIC time per SWA requirements?

It talks about both pilots being type rated, whoever is in the left seat and manipulating the controls is the PIC. It also talks about Aircraft Commander, but only in terms of the military. I understand in most cases the PIC on the release is the PIC period.

However, as a type rated FO on my airplane, flying in the left seat, sole manipulator of the controls, does the time count?

 

[Swerpipe]

Answer to the question

Yes,


On that flight (according to Southwest) you were logging PIC turbine but so was the guy on the right, responsible for the aircraft with ultimate authority as defined in Part 1. As far as Southwest is concerned both guys are getting PIC turbine time. When the FO goes back to the right seat then he is only SIC. I would assume that there is a very small percentage of your time logged where this would happen: (IOE) , getting enough time to meet insurance minumums or something like that.