SWA LGA Captain Fired

[madjack]

Conspiracy Theory Alert: she was fired "prematurely" by the company so that the union can argue due process was not given and she gets her job back and the company and union pass the insurance/customer/membership smell check...

 

[glasspilot1]

I'm sure. All of the FOs on her no-fly list must be drowning their tears in Champagne.

Reminds me when I was a new hire F/O at (CVG commuter (they were called commuters then)) I was with a notorious female CA. On a low vis approach we broke out and she lined up with the left rwy edge lights. I said: The centerlines to the right; she slid over and landed. Now a little flustered she forget to use reverse (only the brakes). I was soon on her "no fly list".

 

[SWA Bubba]

Say what you want about Pilot Controlled Lighting, 122.80 but he knows his stuff.

What? No love for me? I agreed with him in this case.

Bubba

 

[doh]

Bubba, your dress is just as pretty! And your shoes match your purse perfectly! Do you feel better now?

 

[canyonblue]

We have all learned a lot from accident reports, they are a great learning tool. So it seems to me it would be a bigger mistake not to let all airline pilots in on what happened. I'm guessing your disgust is how the media will handle the info and twist it into a story.

What part of the recording should be available to the general public? Should it start at the before push and go all the way to the incident? What may be a learning tool for pilots is dirty laundry for the media.

 

[nordo_2]

What part of the recording should be available to the general public? Should it start at the before push and go all the way to the incident? What may be a learning tool for pilots is dirty laundry for the media.

I sympathize with our lack of privacy. And you're right, it is a slippery slope. My guess is, it won't be long before we have video recording the cockpit. And I agree it is wrong. I don't like it. But, as a group we are powerless to stop it. Unlike Lawyers and Doctors we have no guild or national union. The future is not bright for our collective privacy at work.

Sure, I'll write my congressional and local union representatives to make it known I do not support such measures. But, it will be piss into the wind.

This case is different, and we should take a look at it. We have a problem pilot. Unique and not the majority. But, every airline has its 10 percenters. Hence your "Bid Avoidance" list. From what I hear the He/She was pretty high up on it. This is the real issue. I have heard comments like "Honey Badger", "Man-Hater", in reference to this captain. Why was this tolerated?

 

[jmreii]

Why is the f/o getting training? Are they going to train him how to wrestle the controls from the captain at low altitude? I'd hope SWAPA would be fighting that before worrying about the captain's job. Of course all of this is speculation as the NTSB has not finished their investigation yet.

Standard procedure!

 

[scoreboardII]

Conspiracy Theory Alert: she was fired "prematurely" by the company so that the union can argue due process was not given and she gets her job back and the company and union pass the insurance/customer/membership smell check...

So she can continue being a BA CA? Doubtful. My conspiracy is she is gone for good.

 

[waveflyer]

Chicago and Burbank were accidents......this was willful disregard of procedures.....a conscious choice.

I shouldn't speculate though until the investigation is complete. Did the FAA revoke her license or give a 709 ride? Good question which may leave her high and dry for the company having no choice.

Chicago was tough

Burbank... ?? Crossed the threshold with the flaps blown up so...
That's where her case will be...what was the process and final decision with them. Albeit, Burbank is why we have the go around culture we do now.

As for "bid avoid"

I don't believe in it. And what happens when you do it, or call in- I get not wanting to put your own ticket at risk- but we need strong FOs to fly with these pilots, not reserves.
That's just how I feel about it. Somebody has to fly with them, why shouldn't I share in the pain and do what I can to make sure the airline's safe. Unless you think more incidents like LGA are good for your long term career

 

[IBNAV8R]

Don't know about SWA but at my company, I've seen guys (and gals) come back after some pretty bone-headed incidents. Three things that will get you fired on the spot are lying, trying to cover up the incident, and having history (behavioral or operational) which might suggest a possible recurrence.

I'm thinking there is more than "just" a landing incident at play here.

 

[scoreboardII]

I learned how to be a better pilot by flying with the BA captains, just saying.

 

[glasspilot1]

As for "bid avoid"

I don't believe in it. And what happens when you do it, or call in- I get not wanting to put your own ticket at risk- but we need strong FOs to fly with these pilots, not reserves.
That's just how I feel about it. Somebody has to fly with them, why shouldn't I share in the pain and do what I can to make sure the airline's safe.

One reason I can think of, if a Captains no fly list gets long enough, he/she will get an invitation to the Chief pilots office. The company will be aware.

 

[nordo_2]

One reason I can think of, if a Captains no fly list gets long enough, he/she will get an invitation to the Chief pilots office. The company will be aware.

This puts the problem where it belongs: Management. They may still sweep it under the rug. As was done in this case.

 

[HowardBorden]

This puts the problem where it belongs: Management. They may still sweep it under the rug. As was done in this case.

I disagree, it really is a pilot problem. Pilots need to make complaints to professional standards if there is a question of safety of flight. The problem with high avoidance bid captains is often a personality problem. I really don't want management anywhere near correcting personality deficiencies because it is at best a very subjective matter.

If pro standards receives enough complaints about a pilot deviating from company procedures or FAR's then there should be a process set in place to correct those deficiencies or THEN recommend disciplinary action.

I have flown with several pilots way up the avoidance bid list (I have never used avoidance feature when bidding) in many cases I found them to be just fine individuals to fly with. They may not be the most brilliant conversationalists or in some cases display a less than optimal attitude or demeanor but in my experience their flying skills are not what has placed them near the pinnacle of the avoidance bid list.

 

[densoo]

If pro standards receives enough complaints about a pilot deviating from company procedures or FAR's then there should be a process set in place to correct those deficiencies or THEN recommend disciplinary action.

"Should" is the key word. Most pro standards have no ability to do as you suggest. All they can do is inform the pilot of his problem. It's a catch-22 though--the pilots who need a pro Stan discussion are the very pilots who could care less what they or the pilots they fly with think.

 

[densoo]

One reason I can think of, if a Captains no fly list gets long enough, he/she will get an invitation to the Chief pilots office. The company will be aware.

Some places. I heard at one airline they call the offending pilot in to discuss if there was any way they could "help" since their avoid list was long. At CAL they absolutely could care less. If they called in every pilot who had dozens of avoids they'd be doing nothing but talking to offending pilots all day every day.

A silver lining to the LGA incident is that now that the managements know that this "avoid list issue" will likely be part of the bad publicity following an incident they might actually start looking into it at their own airlines.

 

[metroplex]

Jump up ^ Lunsford, J. Lynn (2000-08-02). "Southwest Airlines Fires Pilot, Co-Pilot Involved in Burbank, Calif., Crash.". Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News. "The airline fired the pilots after completing an internal investigation of the March 5 crash of Flight 1455, which was the first major accident in Southwest's 29-year history."


The NTSB released a transcript of the cockpit voice recorder, in which the flight's captain was quoted as saying, "Well, there goes my career," moments after the accident.[4]

 

[BeachBummer]

Chicago was tough

Burbank... ?? Crossed the threshold with the flaps blown up so...
That's where her case will be...what was the process and final decision with them. Albeit, Burbank is why we have the go around culture we do now.

As for "bid avoid"

I don't believe in it. And what happens when you do it, or call in- I get not wanting to put your own ticket at risk- but we need strong FOs to fly with these pilots, not reserves.
That's just how I feel about it. Somebody has to fly with them, why shouldn't I share in the pain and do what I can to make sure the airline's safe. Unless you think more incidents like LGA are good for your long term career

Respectfully... Because a pilot is on RSV does not make them a weak pilot. Lots of professional RSV guys out there.

Paid by the minute, go around go around go around!

 

[waveflyer]

True-
But it usually makes them junior and maybe real new to the company and less likely to stand up to dbag capt- not all reserves, but a lot.
How willing are you to make waves on probation?

I don't not fly anything I feel like flying bc of who I'm flying with- check airman, BA, personality conflict- whatever- we're supposed to be pros here

 

[humveedriver]

In the LGA case, this was leg 2 of day one. How much do you know about the person you are flying with? FO kept his job. That's really all I need to hear. That retraining can be anything from the sim to classroom instruction. And is more for demonstration purposes (not really a whole lot of training going on). Fly the plane, state your intentions to the other pilot (if the situation warrants it) and get it all on the CVR. If the captain wants to go into business for him or herself, there isn't a whole lot you can do once the plane is in the air. Sometimes folks get really fixated on only one part of the problem and need a little help to see what else is happening. I bet this LGA gal was fixated on the approach end of the runway. As long as you're barking " too steep, go around, airspeed, too high" you will live to fight another day (i've seen some very poor choices but never felt my life was in danger, in either seat).I find the whole thing unfortunate. But it's part of what we do.