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Daddy said:
Hey jetflier,

Why dont you tell us how much better you guys are at NWA:

"A Northwest Airlines pilot's decision to shut down an engine, combined with a hydraulic problem, caused the May 2005 ground collision of two Northwest jets at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport, federal investigators have concluded.
The Boeing DC-9 pilot's action just after landing in the Twin Cities meant that the plane lost all power to its steering, brakes and thrust reversers, causing it to strike an Airbus A319 that was being pushed back from a gate, according to a report issued last week by the National Transportation Safety Board.
The report detailed the events leading up to the accident and the investigation.
The DC-9, with 94 passengers on board, experienced problems with its right-side hydraulic system that powers its steering and brakes soon after leaving Columbus, Ohio. The captain decided to continue flying and declared an emergency as the plane neared the Twin Cities' airport.
After landing, the captain shut down the left engine, which powered the only fully functioning hydraulic system. As a result, the flight crew couldn't steer the plane or use the brakes and thrust reversers. The DC-9 hit a wing of the A319, with 38 passengers aboard, damaging the DC-9's cockpit and spilling fuel. Both planes were evacuated. The DC-9 pilot was seriously injured and seven passengers and crewmembers from both planes had minor injuries.
The NTSB report cited a "fatigue fracture" of the DC-9's rudder shutoff valve, which caused the loss of right-side hydraulic pressure, as a contributing factor in the accident.
Since the accident, Northwest developed an inspection procedure for its fleet in which "any rudder shutoff valve found to have a crack indication was replaced prior to further flight," said company spokesman Roman Blahoski. He declined to comment on the NTSB report.
A spokesman for Air Line Pilots Association at Northwest said the union could not comment on the report.
The NTSB report noted that Northwest recorded 38 instances of DC-9 rudder shutoff-valve housing failures from May 2000 to April 2005. "Northwest reported that they were aware of the cracked valve housings of the rudder shutoff valve prior to the accident" and after a 2003 analysis, according to the report. "The failure of the valve by itself was not determined to be a safety of flight issue and was therefore deemed solely a reliability issue."
Click to expand...

Might wanna check your glass house, Jetflier.
 
Glass House ? (huh) I just posted the letters of others from another web site that were quoted as being sent to Congress and the DOT.

Your comment about Glass Houses means that you agree that WN has some issues like NW Has. Good for you.

The topics of discussion are not aimed at you personally, why take it that way?

The airline industry as a whole has been going through many changes, most of which are controlled by the dollar and executives looking for bonuses to enhance their earnings at the expense of safety. We are the stop gap, period. Safety must come first for ourselves, our crew and most importantly, our passengers who pay our salary.

As professionals we are charged with the ultimate responsibility of the safety of the flight.

There are no options. Whatever decisions we make as PIC or SIC are final. Some of us play it close, weather for financial gain or other reasons, but the final responsibility remains with the crew.

There are turds at every airline and we all know that. Don't be a turd.
 
nimtz said:
Yeah doing favors for controllers, like asking for direct anything to shave off a net 20 seconds or so. I heard a gaggle of SW bubbas suggesting directs and then whining about the vectoring going into Hobby yesterday because of weather west of Houston. It gets old, you'll get there when you freaking get there.
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Ask any controller who they'd rather work? Someone who clogs up the system bc they apparently won't do anything to save time-(paid by the minute...!)(protect the block!) or the occassional over zealous SW pilot looking to save time. at least atc knows 9 in 10 times we'll be ready and if the request is possible we'll be able to do it. the safety record speaks for itself.

I'm just saying the safety card is played way too much at the legacies that I've seen. It makes it harder to address real safety of flight items. Half the time you're simply padding your check bc your mgmt or union screwed you on the last contract. I'm not unsympathetic- do what you think you got to do- just leave sw out of it
 
PURE BS and Flame Bait. SWA Has the best Safety record of any Major Airline that has been around for 38 years.
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How about ATA? Not a single hull loss the entire time they were in operation.
 
A few months back I had a "first". SWA asked center for something direct....for ME! "Hey center, why don't you give Continental a short cut so we can get one?" And the controller did it for them! Told me to go direct AEX, straight into the wx. I politely declined. Of course that made me the f-in legacy guy who pads his paycheck.
 
The economy is in the tank. Lots of airline industry folks are very concerned about how they are going to get through this winter. Angst and depression abound. WN is the easy target to unload on...simple as that.
 
Flopgut said:
A few months back I had a "first". SWA asked center for something direct....for ME! "Hey center, why don't you give Continental a short cut so we can get one?" And the controller did it for them! Told me to go direct AEX, straight into the wx. I politely declined. Of course that made me the f-in legacy guy who pads his paycheck.
Click to expand...

Haha- that's a good story. No- you did the right thing- obviously there's all types at every carrier. Stereotypes aren't 50% valid
 
jetflier said:
Glass House ? (huh) I just posted the letters of others from another web site that were quoted as being sent to Congress and the DOT.

Your comment about Glass Houses means that you agree that WN has some issues like NW Has. Good for you.

The topics of discussion are not aimed at you personally, why take it that way?

The airline industry as a whole has been going through many changes, most of which are controlled by the dollar and executives looking for bonuses to enhance their earnings at the expense of safety. We are the stop gap, period. Safety must come first for ourselves, our crew and most importantly, our passengers who pay our salary.

As professionals we are charged with the ultimate responsibility of the safety of the flight.

There are no options. Whatever decisions we make as PIC or SIC are final. Some of us play it close, weather for financial gain or other reasons, but the final responsibility remains with the crew.

There are turds at every airline and we all know that. Don't be a turd.
Click to expand...

You know what your intent was. No carrier is perfect.

If you're gonna throw barbs, you might want to look in the mirror, Captain.

You're the one that took the time to start this thread.
 
Bringupthebird said:
Sometimes in order to go the extra mile for the company, you end up going the extra 850 feet!
Click to expand...

Thanks... I am now cleaning Bud Light off my computer screen! I can't decide if that is more funny or profound. Is your name Jack Handy (aka Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy)? Either way it was a clean kill to this thread.
 
jetflier said:
"Gentlemen, knowing SWA’s corporate culture of their cozy relationship with and their history of currying favor with Controllers"............... "the history of parties and gifts indicates that SWA may have bought"
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Thanks for the reminder....I've got to wrote my check for the donation for a Flat Screen TV for the Controllers breakroom at BOS. They sure loved that Texas style B-B-Q we had for them last week...
 
Someone please tell the author of those letters that the FAA is, indeed, listening. I had two feds doing linechecks over this last four day trip......and they both fell asleep! By the way, SWA does things safer and better than the legacy I spent four years at.
 
jetflier said:
There are turds at every airline and we all know that.
Click to expand...

Turds and Flamers. Hopefully you and the Genital will get to share a cockpit soon. That's a flight I want my family on.
 
Anyone who does not like WN or their safety record is vested with in inalienable right to not fly them, don't jumpseat on them. Personally I think they offer the best value barr none, with an exceptional safety record that exceeds every major airline in the US without exception. The difference between WN and the other majors is that everywhere else safety is used as a rallying cry to be used as extortion during contract negotiations - how many times do we hear that pilots in negotiations need to "fly safe" and that write ups should happen at outstations - or taxi at a slow walk to simply cause delays and disruption. You never see this crap at WN, safety is not a tool to pressure management.
 
GoodTimes said:
Someone please tell the author of those letters that the FAA is, indeed, listening. I had two feds doing linechecks over this last four day trip......and they both fell asleep! By the way, SWA does things safer and better than the legacy I spent four years at.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I bet they do, I mean, who needs auto brakes, auto throttles, and that pesky HUD just keeps getting in the way of seeing the gas station at the end of they runway!
 
Think for a minute

tathagatha said:
To a man, those SWA pilots who went off the end of a long runway(just not SAC long) were USAF trained.
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For the record,

I am not a SWA pilot, I am not USAF or a military-trained pilot.

This thread is way out of hand. I know the FO from the MDW incident. He was not trained by the USAF. If you don't have your facts straight, don't say anything. It really doesn't matter where he was trained. SWA found him to be a qualified pilot and he had an unfortunate event occur that will stay with him the rest of his life.

This entire thread is completely useless.

For those of you that find pleasure in criticizing other pilots or their lack of good fortune, you are doing nothing to contribute to our profession. Stop and think for a minute how awful it would feel to be responsible for killing a young boy who just happpened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Think about that.

We have all been "lucky" at some point in our careers. (It's better to be lucky than good sometimes.) But for the most part, we learn from our mistakes. Accusing other airlines and their pilots of purposely operating unsafely is wrong. We all push the envelope sometimes, but never purposely cross that line.
 
The FAA knew about the parts (that have nothing to do with safety) two years ago, and just decided to do something about it it this past week. Sounds like it really isn't a big deal if the FAA knew about it 2 YEARS AGO!!!
 
Hey,Raol Duke,

You Said "safety is not a tool to pressure management". If that's your opinion then what's your recommended tool to pressure management?

Isn't WN in contract negotiations now?
 
nimtz said:
Yeah doing favors for controllers, like asking for direct anything to shave off a net 20 seconds or so. I heard a gaggle of SW bubbas suggesting directs and then whining about the vectoring going into Hobby yesterday because of weather west of Houston. It gets old, you'll get there when you freaking get there.
Click to expand...


not to be an ass.. but.. well the economies of scale.. 20 sec * 3300 flights a day = 66,000 seconds aka 1100 minutes or 18 hours 15 minutes at day at ~4400llbs/hr = ~80,700llbs or 11,500 gallons a day or about 4 1/4 million gallons a year.. which depending on fuel prices is worth about $10 million dollers for my company....

all this just from taking a few seconds to ask for a shortcut.... ummm.. hell yea!!!!
 
actually.....per passenger seat mile flown the safest airline is/was Northwest. I think that's actually over it's 79 year history. Just statistics.
 

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