SWA / Frontier Deal Off For Now!

[Caveman]

WarnerNo13,

Nothing personal, but let's cut to the chase. I know it's PC to support the idea 'everyone is crucial to make an airline go' philosophy, but it's crap. Pilots make airlines go. Period. I know we're not supposed to say that out loud. Tough. No pilots, no airlines. Everybody else is secondary. Yeah, I said it.......

 

[WarnerNo13]

WarnerNo13,

Nothing personal, but let's cut to the chase. I know it's PC to support the idea 'everyone is crucial to make an airline go' philosophy, but it's crap. Pilots make airlines go. Period. I know we're not supposed to say that out loud. Tough. No pilots, no airlines. Everybody else is secondary. Yeah, I said it.......

That's mighty cordial of ya. Let me respond that without dispatchers in a 121 you're not making any airplanes go. Without mechanics you can go but probably won't fly very high for very long. Without flight attendants the govt won't be too happy if you go, and without res agents taking people's credit car numbers to pay you, the airline won't go. I wouldn't call it really PC, it's more factual. If pilots did all of the above I might agree with you but they don't.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

What's going on with the mechanics' labor groups? The dispatcher labor groups? What about the flight attendants one being union and the other not? Take in the whole picture.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_bi_ge/us_frontier_southwest_3


While Frontier pilots are in a position to make some kind of deal before their airline is sold, other workers aren't so lucky. Southwest told Frontier mechanics and others represented by Teamsters Local 961 in a meeting Wednesday that it intended to eventually liquidate Frontier and hire only a handful of the 450 Frontier mechanics and others represented by the union, said Matthew Fazakas, president and principal officer of the local.

"We obviously think that's outrageous," Fazakas said Thursday. "They told us only a handful of people would be offered jobs, and they were not coming over by seniority."


.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Hey Idiot,
All Allegheny-Mohawk says it that the SLI must be fair and equitable, with no windfall to either group. It doesn't say ANYTHING about seat protection or relative seniority. You sure do spout off a lot, in spite of hardly ever knowing what the ******************** you're talking about.

Disagree. They will force arbitration and get seat protection and relative seniority to their respective seat. It is Federal Law Mohawk Allegeny. These guys know what they are doing.

 

[WarnerNo13]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_bi_ge/us_frontier_southwest_3


While Frontier pilots are in a position to make some kind of deal before their airline is sold, other workers aren't so lucky. Southwest told Frontier mechanics and others represented by Teamsters Local 961 in a meeting Wednesday that it intended to eventually liquidate Frontier and hire only a handful of the 450 Frontier mechanics and others represented by the union, said Matthew Fazakas, president and principal officer of the local.

"We obviously think that's outrageous," Fazakas said Thursday. "They told us only a handful of people would be offered jobs, and they were not coming over by seniority."


.

Ouch. I rest my case.

 

[trip]

I would be really surprised if WN can't wrestle a bankrupt airline from little old RAH, at fire sale prices?

Also noted majority of these post are from WN pilots who are obviously in angst over getting this deal done ?

You WN guys should tone it down, too much chest thumping going on here.

Good luck to all envolved.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

I would be really surprised if WN can't wrestle a bankrupt airline from little old RAH, at fire sale prices?

Also noted majority of these post are from WN pilots who are obviously in angst over getting this deal done ?

You WN guys should tone it down, too much chest thumping going on here.

Good luck to all envolved.

Not really, I am kind of looking forward to the deal failing after what I just read on the SWAPA forum. The demands of FAPA are WWAAAAAAYYYYYY out of line! Good luck with Republic!

 

[StaySeated]

Not really, I am kind of looking forward to the deal failing after what I just read on the SWAPA forum. The demands of FAPA are WWAAAAAAYYYYYY out of line! Good luck with Republic!

Demands? I can tell you that there were zero demands. As one of your swapa releases indicated, a ratio integration was proposed, with swapa picking the ratio. There was nothing close to a demand. Just negotiations with exchanges of proposals. Swapa started with a staple, fapa responded in kind with a ratio. The end result ideally would be something in the middle.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

How's this for a start.........

$3000/month + health benefits for for all their furloughees with no time limit

 

[vv100]

Not really, I am kind of looking forward to the deal failing after what I just read on the SWAPA forum. The demands of FAPA are WWAAAAAAYYYYYY out of line! Good luck with Republic!

From TOF

All Denver FAPA pilots will be Denver Domicile protected with first dibs on any newly created 737 positions in Denver forever.


They want $3000/month + health benefits for for all their furloughees with no time limit

Yep. Time to kill this one.
Well..bye!!

 

[Richard Gozinya]

I was just about to post that one about the FOREVER in Denver domicile.............NFW!

Wow, like I said, enjoy Republic!

Dick

 

[RedDogC130]

WRITTEN BY SOMEONE OTHER THAN ME ON OUR OTHER FORUM....RD

Don't dismiss the precedent of what happened to the Former Muse/Transtar
pilots. They (their ALPA MEC) refused to accept a staple to the bottom of the SWA seniority list. The rank and file did not get to vote. The outcome was that SWA operated them as a wholly owned subsidiary for 2 or so years and then put them straight into chapter 7 for liquidation, bypassing chapter 11 bankruptcy. Plenty of airlines were happy to take their aircraft without the problem of having to deal with labor integration issues. There was no airline at that point, only aircraft, so there were no employees to deal with. The result was that instead of EVERY Muse/Transtar pilot being a Captain at SWA by 1990, they all went straight to unemployment and got to start over wherever they could get hired. A few did get on at SWA the old fashioned way, they interviewed after getting a 737 type and came on as new hires in 1988 with some 3 years and a huge percentage less seniority than they would have had.
SWA could do what GK has said, which is operate Frontier as a separate entity for 2 years and then "gradually draw it down as 737's replace the Airbus". Lynx could be operated separately as well and retained indefinitely. It already seems that their pilots would be happy to join SWA at the bottom and move up from there.
A problem with this is that F9 pilots would be in 2 camps. One that is unhappy with their situation and could be disruptive. The other would be unhappy with the first group and who would have accecpted whatever deal they could have wrangled out of SWA/SWAPA.
Everyone has their own opinion, but this scenario has been acted out in the past and SWA management and SWAPA leadership know it.
In the Muse/Transtar and Morris buyouts I believe it was Herb's position to not automatically hire any of the pilots, but to only offer them preferential interviews. Swapa opposed this as it would have resulted in non-SWAPA pilots flying SWA owned aircraft (Scope issue), for some period of time even it it were to be a matter of months or a year or two.
If anyone has other or more accurate information on this, please correct anything I have posted that is not correct.

 

[terryhfly]

Hold up SWA dudes and take a breath. Where are you getting the info on what FAPA is "Demanding"?

From TOF

All Denver FAPA pilots will be Denver Domicile protected with first dibs on any newly created 737 positions in Denver forever.

They want $3000/month + health benefits for for all their furloughees with no time limit

Yep. Time to kill this one.
Well..bye!!

I will bet my house that this was not brought up during the talks! F9 is not demanding anything. They have concerns about things that will affect their pilot group. Captains at F9 are not demanding to be captains at SWA. Everyone needs to read what the unions are putting out and not speculate on third party hearsay.

 

[StaySeated]

It was a negotiation. During a negotiation, each side exchanges modified proposals until an agreement can be made. Understand? There were no take it or leave it demands from fapa.

 

[shagadelic]

From our merger committee on our SWAPA website. We are getting great communication, it's kind of refreshing.