SWA downgraded due to "lucrative pilot contract and dwindling fuel hedges"

[SeaSlam]

I'm sure this will become a familiar topic of discussion over the next 2 years...

http://www.aviationtoday.com/feature.htm

 

[FL717]

Is everybody suddenly a Drama Queen??

I'm sure this will become a familiar topic of discussion over the next 2 years...

http://www.aviationtoday.com/feature.htm

Your attention grabbing thread title complete with a big "stoplight" is an example of someone who needs to get a life. You are exactly the type of MTV soundbite lazy generation person that the media plays on. You know and repeat only what they feed you.

First... did you even read the article? Second... more importantly did you comprehend the information in the article?

The quote that you seem to put on Southwest was made by one woman way back in July. Hardly a current newsflash.

Finally, since you don't appear to have actually read the article.... the actual facts of the article speak very well about Southwest and their performance. It would appear that the actual intent of the article was not so much about the demise of Southwest.... but the demise of USAir and America West. What is a shame is the fact that USAir and America West haven't even merged yet, and this reporter wants to start the funeral procession already stating that Southwest could drive them into liquidity.

So which is it.... is Southwest going to die due to high costs, or USAir/America West going to die because of the efficiency of Southwest?

The reporter suggests both.... but certainly doesn't seem to answer any of their own cotradiction in that article. I really dislike the media. They have really hurt the economy and businesses more than people realise.

If you keep telling it long enough... people will start believing it. Thats why I like Southwest, because for over 30 years they haven't listened to it, and have done just fine.

 

[pilot141]

Jeez, FL717, relax. The OP didn't mention the "demise" of Southwest, he just took one (accurate, I might add) quote from the article, used it as a headline and linked to the article. SWA was, in fact, downgraded due to the reasons cited in the headline.

As to the "If you keep telling it long enough...people will believe it".....well, this seems to be one of the few media articles that recognizes that SWA pilots are among the highest paid in the industry. We all know it, but then again we are not the average public. Instead of the standard "SWA's low costs allow it wipe the floor with everyone" we hear that they might actually have some "cost headwinds". Not demise, but some "headwinds".

Yeah, the downgrade was made "way back" in July....a whole two months ago! Has the pilot contract changed since then? Oh, yeah, they got a pay raise in Sep. How about other costs, like unhedged fuel? Oh, yeah.....again they went up. If anything an analysis "way back" in July would prove to be overly optomistic.

As you critique the OP for predicting the "demise" of SWA, your apparent blind love for the airline comes through. That's fine: I've got nothing wrong with someone loving a particular airline for whatever reason. But don't go on an unjustified tirade when someone merely posts an article that has some not-completely-glowing info about your favorite airline.

 

[Draginass]

It is impossible for an airline to die, no matter how badly it is led and managed. Witness 2 BKs by US Air and 3 YEARS in BK by Untied.

 

[kelbill]

Pilot141,

I couldn't link to the article, but did it mention pay rates or compare pilot costs? If it is just rates, then the article is skewed big time, as we are amongst the top, if not the top, productive pilots in the industry. I will hit 5,000 hours in the venerable 737 after less than 5 1/2 years on the line. (I am a flying whore though). We have/need fewer pilots per plane. Also, excluding oil prices, which will continue to hose everybody including SWA (although less with hedges), our CASM has gone down about 3% or so I believe from last year. Things aren't getting worse, they are getting better. And speaking of the future, we get another raise next year, BUT, what about all the legacies whose pilots will be DEMANDING BIG raises in the coming years should their airlines make even a slight profit. That, I guarantee. I assume the article didn't mention that possibility but rather assumed the legacies new low cost models would remain intact. I could be wrong. I'm an ex-c141 puke too.

Arrogance can bite us, but some folks are just responding to the continuous attempts to find fault with us. SWA mgt continues to tell us that times are tough and not to underestimate the competition. They NEVER tell us a legacy will be liquidating and so times will improve. We plan for the worst scenario. Pilots elsewhere need to figure out how to work hard to keep their own companies profitable as opposed to try to make ours sound like it is in trouble. Wasted energy.

 

[Puck Mugger]

It is impossible for an airline to die, no matter how badly it is led and managed. Witness 2 BKs by US Air and 3 YEARS in BK by Untied.

Just since 2000:

http://www.justplanes.com/AirlineHist.html


And don't forget:

Braniff
Eastern
TWA
Pan AM



Et., etc., etc.

http://www.ruudleeuw.com/remember.htm

 

[canyonblue]

Arrogance can bite us, but some folks are just responding to the continuous attempts to find fault with us. SWA mgt continues to tell us that times are tough and not to underestimate the competition. They NEVER tell us a legacy will be liquidating and so times will improve. We plan for the worst scenario. Pilots elsewhere need to figure out how to work hard to keep their own companies profitable as opposed to try to make ours sound like it is in trouble. Wasted energy.

Well said.

 

[filejw]

The Wall street guys are just adding the the numbers.Try SWA 's balance sheet with fuel at 2 1/2 times the price.But don't kid yourself SWA is the best run of all the airlines and they will find a way.

 

[jetexas]

I think one key factor is the mutual respect that SWA has between labor/management. While that may have changed some over recent times, it is still solid from what I understand. They even worked for free at SWA once upon a time to keep the company going. The way other managements have treated employees is a different story. That's the one major thing that sets SWA apart.

 

[pilot141]

Pilot141,

I couldn't link to the article, but did it mention pay rates or compare pilot costs? If it is just rates, then the article is skewed big time, as we are amongst the top, if not the top, productive pilots in the industry. I will hit 5,000 hours in the venerable 737 after less than 5 1/2 years on the line. (I am a flying whore though). We have/need fewer pilots per plane. Also, excluding oil prices, which will continue to hose everybody including SWA (although less with hedges), our CASM has gone down about 3% or so I believe from last year. ext year, BUT, what about all the legacies whose pilots will be DEMANDING BIG rThings aren't getting worse, they are getting better. And speaking of the future, we get another raise naises in the coming years should their airlines make even a slight profit. That, I guarantee. I assume the article didn't mention that possibility but rather assumed the legacies new low cost models would remain intact. I could be wrong. I'm an ex-c141 puke too.

Arrogance can bite us, but some folks are just responding to the continuous attempts to find fault with us. SWA mgt continues to tell us that times are tough and not to underestimate the competition. They NEVER tell us a legacy will be liquidating and so times will improve. We plan for the worst scenario. Pilots elsewhere need to figure out how to work hard to keep their own companies profitable as opposed to try to make ours sound like it is in trouble. Wasted energy.

Outstanding! Someone who can argue the merits of their position rather than just the emotions!

FYI, the article did not go into pilot-pay specifics, other than saying that SWA guys are "at the top of the industry". That's quite a change for the flying public to accept, so I expect to see it very rarely.

I also refuse to answer your ridiculous allegations about pilots demanding huge salaries and getting them; welcome to the post-1970s world!

Do some research on teh Intarweb first, and then come to us for comments.

Rich Oliver