SWA delaying new planes, adding used Westjet birds --article

[PCL_128]

Arbitrators don't?. Then why do arbitrators give credence to widebodies?

Because a fleet of widebodies doesn't disappear overnight. Pay, work rules, pensions, etc. can.

I was definitely unafraid of arbitration.

You can keep saying it, but nobody believes it.

What I'm afraid of, and you guys prove me right here on this board, is integrating 1800 pilots who don't want to be here and screw up the culture of this place, and how fun it is to work here 90% of the time. You don't believe in it with your self-fulfilled prophecy. Why the hell should I be happy with a bunch of ungrateful whiny b/tches showing up- half of whom placed over me-
Esp after we sold 2/3 of your airplanes.

You've done that to yourselves. This pilot group would have integrated happily if they weren't treated like trash. But the beatings continue daily. Every day it seems that another shoe drops. If you suddenly find your pilot group filled with a bunch of pissed off pilots, then remember that guys like you and Gary are to blame.

 

[General Lee]

Arbitrators don't?. Then why do arbitrators give credence to widebodies?

Widebodies are an airplane that makes more money, allowing their pilots to make more. We have a network system that makes more money, allowing our pilots to make more. I was definitely unafraid of arbitration. And you're living in a dream world thinking any arbitration would have placed you above your date of higher.

But it's convenient for you to hold that thought.

What I'm afraid of, and you guys prove me right here on this board, is integrating 1800 pilots who don't want to be here and screw up the culture of this place, and how fun it is to work here 90% of the time. You don't believe in it with your self-fulfilled prophecy. Why the hell should I be happy with a bunch of ungrateful whiny b/tches showing up- half of whom placed over me-
Esp after we sold 2/3 of your airplanes.

Wave, first if all, your "Date of higher" dreams never would have happened in arbitration, none of the recent big mergers have had that. Since you guys had like sized planes, it would have been closer than you think. There may not have been many FAT pilots in the top third, but many would have remained 737 Capts, no doubt. There would have been procedures set up in case of displacements, and maybe "no bump and flush" style arrangements. Anything could have happened.

As far as people upsetting the "culture", it started with management favoring one side. MOST managements stay out of it, and after the SLI is done, angry people point at the arbitrator(s). That SAVES management. I hope your transitions go smoothly, but a lot of people could see this coming a mile away.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[madjack]

You are on crack...

 

[waveflyer]

Are you figuring out we don't have "most managements" yet, GL?

And PCL, you're saying that you'd have happily integrated if your unrealistic expectations were met. And you could keep screwing with the process to swa's detriment.

Ok.

Yes, then- if that's your criteria then you got screwed.
Btw- you aren't getting my widebody ex. I don't care to explain it, but I will refute it- america west's widebodies didn't stick around. And our network and business model isn't going anywhere-

And let me tell you something- if Gary spends a bunch of resources buying you- and we do hit those hard times you think are so imminent at SWA- it better be AT employees that feel that first. Especially with the way you've acted- so entitled to everything our people have spent 4 decades getting-

You're a ridiculous spoiled brat

 

[PCL_128]

And PCL, you're saying that you'd have happily integrated if your unrealistic expectations were met.

Yep. As long as I could keep my ATL base with roughly the same seniority, I'd have happily integrated.

america west's widebodies didn't stick around.

America West didn't have a fleet of widebodies, they had a handful. It was four airplanes, I believe, and they were wet-leased.

And let me tell you something- if Gary spends a bunch of resources buying you- and we do hit those hard times you think are so imminent at SWA- it better be AT employees that feel that first. Especially with the way you've acted- so entitled to everything our people have spent 4 decades getting-

You're a ridiculous spoiled brat

And you're an arrogant pr!ck. Have a nice weekend, wave.

 

[Tripower455]

Yep. As long as I could keep my ATL base with roughly the same seniority, I'd have happily integrated.

Ask the MCO SW FOs getting displaced about how happy THEY are about the integration.

 

[Tripower455]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, my friend. To some, they believed it was at least equal. To those living in and around Atlanta, or folks who made Captain quickly, I'd say they viewed moving to Southwest as a lateral (if not backwards) move. It's all about perspective. Now, a 1-3 year FO on reserve? Southwest would definitely be a step up in pay, certain work rules as well. There's the bulk of your AT to SWA transfers. Add in the things I (jokingly) listed and I could see why some would want to leave.

Agreed, there are always folks that are happy where they are for various reasons. Heck, I know guys who chose to stay at the various commuters I've been at over the years, when there were much better options available.

You have to admit, that the vast majority in the industry, not to mention a ton of AT folks (prior to 9/27 of course ), would've preferred to be at SW vs. AT, given the choice. I've had lots of contact with AT folks over the years, and every one of them would've preferred to be at SW. I've written several letters for AT guys over the years and all would've come over had they been hired.

I know a lot of your contemporaries like to bring up the pay all the time, but I'd keep my current contract (and the lower rates that go with it) any day over yours...IF...I could keep the quality of life I'm currently afforded. That's not gonna happen though.

Of course. But, FWIW, every FAT guy I've flown with have said that they are much happier over here than they ever were over there. Most have been former Capts too.

 

[ATLplt]

Ask the MCO SW FOs getting displaced about how happy THEY are about the integration.

Would those MCO FO's be happier if our 15 to going on 20 year former AT Capt's came over as Capt's (where they belong) instead. They may be upset, but it's because of the senior FO, Capt seat grab that their QOL is suffering. I posed that question to a SWA FO riding the jump, (who was bitching openly to a stapled FO and about to downgrade Capt), and it finally dawned on him as to why things are the way they are. I couldn't believe that he hadn't figured out that these weren't AT FO's bumping him out.

As to the rest of your response, I'm glad to see our guys are enjoying themselves. It gives the rest of us hope that as sh!tty as things are getting on our side of the Mason-Dixon there will be some sort of silver lining. I will say though that the majority of folks coming next year are the ones that will suffer "juniority", commuting west, with no upgrade in sight, for a VERY long time. The praise that's being sung now will surely turn south a bit.

 

[canyonblue]

I couldn't believe that he hadn't figured out that these weren't AT FO's bumping him out.

Because they weren't AT FO's bumping him out, they were SWA FO's. That's the way the SLI went down, I can't believe you haven't figured that out yet. If you all wanted arbitration, it only took one thing to bring it. Yet over 80% of you didn't want to pull that lever, don't blame anyone else for your decisions.

 

[Tripower455]

Would those MCO FO's be happier if our 15 to going on 20 year former AT Capt's came over as Capt's (where they belong) instead.

Absolutely, since they wouldn't be as likely to be displaced in that scenario. Either way, they are screwed, but they are screwed worse with SL10 than they were with SL9.

They may be upset, but it's because of the senior FO, Capt seat grab that their QOL is suffering. I posed that question to a SWA FO riding the jump, (who was bitching openly to a stapled FO and about to downgrade Capt), and it finally dawned on him as to why things are the way they are. I couldn't believe that he hadn't figured out that these weren't AT FO's bumping him out.

Oh, they are intimately aware of why they're getting displaced. Most blame SWApA (as do I) for not pushing some sort or ROR (many in SWApA actually fought against ROR, because the senior vacation poachers, boat movers and seasonal carpet baggers would be more limited in their flexibility). They also ignored the root problem, which is our monthly -3/+1 vacancy bid BS. Most realize that the AT guys coming in on top of the FO lists are not to blame, although they are an easy target for some folk's ire.

As to the rest of your response, I'm glad to see our guys are enjoying themselves. It gives the rest of us hope that as sh!tty as things are getting on our side of the Mason-Dixon there will be some sort of silver lining. I will say though that the majority of folks coming next year are the ones that will suffer "juniority", commuting west, with no upgrade in sight, for a VERY long time. The praise that's being sung now will surely turn south a bit.

I hope that folks come over with an open mind. I truly believe that you'll like it over here once the dust settles. Before 9/27, WN was one of the most sought after jobs in the industry. We have our 10% too, but overall, it's a great group of folks. Everyone laughs at the "culture" BS, and so did I, after working at 7 other airlines prior to SW. The fact is that it is (or at least was) different than anywhere else I worked. It is definitely being a little more strained these days, and not only because of the AT deal.


As unbelievable as it will seem to the FI braintrust, even the downgraded FAT guys are doing fine. Every one I have flown with have been great guys, happy here, and are making very close to the same or more $ than they were making before, with less days worked (their words). Some are making a lot more since they figured out how to game the premium open time system using their mega seniority in seat.