SWA crew change question...

[skiandsurf]

I was on a SWA flight last week, and while on the ground at PHX, I noticed that there were "no crewmembers onboard the plane". There were about 20 thru pax, and no crewmembers. I thought it was an FAR that there be FAs onboard the plane while there are pax onboard.

Is it an FAR? Does SWA have a waiver on this reg?

(I have noticed this on other SWA flights, and it made me think as to what is going on)

 

[instructordude]

I was on a SWA flight last week, and while on the ground at PHX, I noticed that there were "no crewmembers onboard the plane". There were about 20 thru pax, and no crewmembers. I thought it was an FAR that there be FAs onboard the plane while there are pax onboard.

Is it an FAR? Does SWA have a waiver on this reg?

(I have noticed this on other SWA flights, and it made me think as to what is going on)

Unbelievable.

 

[Widow's Son]

SWA policy is that there must always be a pilot "with" the aircraft anytime it is powered up which it would be if there were pax on board. However, standing in the jetway, or down on the ramp performing a preflight is considered "with" the aircraft.
On a crew change, the FO's meet the aircraft on the ramp and the Captains handover and discuss the aircraft in the jetway. From your perspective there may have not been anyone around, but I assure you, that there were.

 

[skiandsurf]

From your perspective there may have not been anyone around, but I assure you, that there were.

From my perspective (exiting the front lav), no one in the cockpit and no FAs in the plane. The FAs were in the jetway, but I thought the reg was to be onboard the plane. But again, maybe your company reads it differently than other airlines. That why I asked.

 

[8v8ter]

At Alaska, the FA's (all 3 or 4 depending on A/C model) are required to be ON the A/C, not in the Jetway, if even one pax is on. They are all scared to get fired if they so much as step into the jetway to help someone out. When they change crews, the new one gets on before the old crew gets off or at least trade one for one. I don't know what 121 requires, but I don't think it's that strict, but I do believe at least one crewmember is required to actually be aboard.

 

[Widow's Son]

In a single aisle aircraft, new FA's with roller bags can't board until the old FA's with their roller bags have deplaned. Our rules state that the FA's can't depart until their replacements have arrived in the jetway, but if the FA's were in the jetway, the aircraft is considered manned. In the old days, on terminators, pilots could leave the aircraft with a mechanic even with pax still on board, but that got changed a while back and at least one pilot must remain. Also, one or two FA's could have been on board in the back galley or even in the lav, and you wouldn't have seen them from the forward area.

I'm not saying you were wrong, but leaving an aircraft unmanned is against our policy, and in almost two decades, I have never once seen an aircraft simply abandoned by pilots or FA's with pax on board.

 

[Heavy Set]

They were all in the cockpit partying like rockstars! The 1 2 3 rule was in full effect. Those people have so much fun it really should be illegal.

 

[skiandsurf]

I'm not saying you were wrong, but leaving an aircraft unmanned is against our policy, and in almost two decades, I have never once seen an aircraft simply abandoned by pilots or FA's with pax on board.

Thanks, you did answer the question. Yes, they were all in the jetway. Just didnt think that was right. And its not the first time I have seen this. This is why I brought it up.

 

[filejw]

Interesting.At my company the pilots don't have to be (and are generally not) anywhere near the A/C for boarding or thru pax.

 

[CJCCapt]

Yes it's an FAR.

"§ 121.393 Crewmember requirements at stops where passengers remain on board.

At stops where passengers remain on board, the certificate holder must meet the following requirements: ...

(b) On each airplane for which flight attendants are required by §121.391(a), but the number of flight attendants remaining on board is fewer than required by §121.391(a), the certificate holder must meet the following requirements:

(1) The certificate holder shall ensure that:

(i) The airplane engines are shut down;

(ii) At least one floor level exit remains open to provide for the deplaning of passengers; and

(iii) the number of flight attendants on board is at least half the number required by §121.391(a), rounded down to the next lower number in the case of fractions, but never fewer than one. ...

(3) If only one flight attendant or other qualified person is on board during a stop, that flight attendant or other qualified person shall be located in accordance with the certificate holder's FAA-approved operating procedures. If more than one flight attendant or other qualified person is on board, the flight attendants or other qualified persons shall be spaced throughout the cabin to provide the most effective assistance for the evacuation in case of an emergency."

They need to be in the cabin, not in the jetway, to comply with 121.393. I doubt highly the FAA would approve something less than this in the company's op specs. If the company uses an "other qualified person(s)" that person must be clearly identified to the remaining passengers before the FA's leave the aircraft.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

I was on a SWA flight last week, and while on the ground at PHX, I noticed that there were "no crewmembers onboard the plane". There were about 20 thru pax, and no crewmembers. I thought it was an FAR that there be FAs onboard the plane while there are pax onboard.

Is it an FAR? Does SWA have a waiver on this reg?

(I have noticed this on other SWA flights, and it made me think as to what is going on)

Were you jumpseating or did you purchase a ticket each time you fly on them.

 

[NuGuy]

Just probably another "special deal" like the rampie walk around, and the "magical thin rope of safety" at JetBlue.

Nu

 

[Dizel8]

"magical thin rope of safety" at JetBlue.

What are you spouting off about??

 

[chase]

As someone pointed out, the following scenario could be in play but without knowing the full details they could all have occurred or none:

1. FA in the back galley out of view

2. A qualified FA who was deadheading in the back of the airplane out of uniform who said they would perform the duty.

3. A qualified FA or pilot who was deadheading in or out of uniform in the back who said he/she would perform the duty. Might not havre been obvious to the other pax.

4. Crewmembers swapping out with the new crew in the jetway awaiting for the old crew to exit the aircraft.

All of the above examples are examples of what may have occurred. SWA does not permit a plane to be left with no crewmembers performing the duties as spelled out in the FOM of either the pilots or FA. In my tenure at SWA I have never seen or heard of that occurance. Just one persons's opinion.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Just probably another "special deal" like the rampie walk around

Whats that?

 

[Whataburger]

Rumor out of Dallas is that PHX is our "test bed" for the Southwest Crewless Flights. Think of all the money we can save by not having flight attendants and pilots! The airplane is remote control controlled by the weekly Texas Lottery winners and over age 60 retired pilots. When bording, dont forget to grab a coke, O2mask, and make dang certain to read your emergency procedures. I believe there is a comment card regarding these new procedures in your seatback pocket. Ding, git 'er done!!

 

[CHQ Pilot]

Just received a memo that states the FAA has reaffirmed that SWA Flight Attendants are allowed to leave the plane during stops. It essentially says the flight attendants are allowed to leave the aircraft because it is parked at the gate, engines off, and the main cabin door is open.

 

[ultrapilot]

Almost correct...... They can leave as long as a pilot subs in for a flight attendant that is gone. That means that there will always be at least three people at the aircraft to handle the pax if something happens at the gate.
It may look like there is no one in the back but the B flight attendant is in the back of the aircraft somewhere ready to spring into action if needed. The pilots can take care of the rest of the aircraft while the other two "stews" are getting grub.

Ultrapilot

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Only 3 positions (3 FAs or 2 FAs + 1 pilot) must be filled during passenger boarding. With the aircraft parked at the gate, only 1 cabin crewmember (pilot can serve) required onboard.

 

[SWA/FO]

(I have noticed this on other SWA flights, and it made me think as to what is going on)

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