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swa classes?
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Here the Word
From our Flight Ops News line today. Go find that towel that you threw out last month!!
"With the third quarter results announced last week came the news of additional aircraft for delivery in 2003. You may recall that previously we were anticipating a net gain of eight aircraft next year (14 new aircraft with 6 -200 retirements) and now we have a net gain of thirteen aircraft. New Hire classes will begin in early January."
See you in Dallas!!
From our Flight Ops News line today. Go find that towel that you threw out last month!!
"With the third quarter results announced last week came the news of additional aircraft for delivery in 2003. You may recall that previously we were anticipating a net gain of eight aircraft next year (14 new aircraft with 6 -200 retirements) and now we have a net gain of thirteen aircraft. New Hire classes will begin in early January."
See you in Dallas!!
Re: Here the Word
So by my admittedly limited math ability, I see a net increase in the projected fielding of aircraft of five....13 actual versus 8 previously predicted. So, doing the pool math, five times crew ratio of eleven pilots per aircraft equals fifty-five additional pilots on the line, not including projected retirements, which might be accounted for outside this calculation. Any comments?
737dude said:
So by my admittedly limited math ability, I see a net increase in the projected fielding of aircraft of five....13 actual versus 8 previously predicted. So, doing the pool math, five times crew ratio of eleven pilots per aircraft equals fifty-five additional pilots on the line, not including projected retirements, which might be accounted for outside this calculation. Any comments?
ultrapilot
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 39
More Pilots
Actually it will be thirteen aircraft times eleven crews per aircraft plus around sixty-five retirements equals approximately two hundred and five pilots for next year. 13 x 11 + 65 = 205
I for one hope that is a low estimate and that we open more cities, buy more aircraft, and hire more pilots. Working for SWA is great but being on reserve until more pilots are hired is not as good as holding a line. I am not complaining mind you, I love the job, but having more pilots below me on the seniority list means that I upgrade faster.
Good luck to all.
Actually it will be thirteen aircraft times eleven crews per aircraft plus around sixty-five retirements equals approximately two hundred and five pilots for next year. 13 x 11 + 65 = 205
I for one hope that is a low estimate and that we open more cities, buy more aircraft, and hire more pilots. Working for SWA is great but being on reserve until more pilots are hired is not as good as holding a line. I am not complaining mind you, I love the job, but having more pilots below me on the seniority list means that I upgrade faster.
Good luck to all.
Re: More Pilots
I like your numbers a lot better than mine, Ultra. However, I'm intrigued that classes had not been planned until the additional five aircraft were announced (13 vice 8). So, my reasoning was that the company may have intended to absorb the net increase of 8 aircraft without training new pilots, and that the additional 5 aircraft put them "over the top," needing to hire more pilots, around 5 aircraft worth. I hope you're right! I might just make it to training at the bottom of 5 aircraft worth of pilots, but if they train some 200 as you indicate, that would be better for you, me and everyone in the pool.
Good luck to you! It will be my pleasure to improve your seniority by coming to class
ultrapilot said:
I like your numbers a lot better than mine, Ultra. However, I'm intrigued that classes had not been planned until the additional five aircraft were announced (13 vice 8). So, my reasoning was that the company may have intended to absorb the net increase of 8 aircraft without training new pilots, and that the additional 5 aircraft put them "over the top," needing to hire more pilots, around 5 aircraft worth. I hope you're right! I might just make it to training at the bottom of 5 aircraft worth of pilots, but if they train some 200 as you indicate, that would be better for you, me and everyone in the pool.
Good luck to you! It will be my pleasure to improve your seniority by coming to class
T1bubba
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 317
Re: Re: More Pilots
I think you may be overestimating the amount that their crew manning is off. The worst rumors I'd heard for next year were that there would be no new classes until the second quarter, which was when the new aircraft were going to start showing up on a regular basis anyway. If they are overmanned, wouldn't they fix it now by having smaller or no classes instead of waiting?
Last year every time they announced new service and new aircraft deliveries classes to cover those aircraft were announced soon after. The only time they didn't hire 10-11 pilots per aircraft was in August/September (4 aircraft, only the July class of 20 to cover them).
I thought the timing of the aircraft arrivals was interesting, five in December and one in January but the pilots to cover them won't hit IOE until mid-February at the earliest. Maybe they're thinking everyone will do some extra flying in January to pay off those Christmas bills? Or is it that they don't have to pay the new hires profitsharing for another year?
Last January started out with two classes of 20 scheduled, but then they added another January class and increased them to 26. The calls for the two originally scheduled classes went out in late November, must have been quite a nice early Christmas present. We can always hope that history will repeat itself...
Of course, all the speculation in the world isn't going to get me to Dallas any sooner. Man, I'm looking forward to that day (whenever it will be!)
T1bubba
HP,HPaul3 said:
I think you may be overestimating the amount that their crew manning is off. The worst rumors I'd heard for next year were that there would be no new classes until the second quarter, which was when the new aircraft were going to start showing up on a regular basis anyway. If they are overmanned, wouldn't they fix it now by having smaller or no classes instead of waiting?
Last year every time they announced new service and new aircraft deliveries classes to cover those aircraft were announced soon after. The only time they didn't hire 10-11 pilots per aircraft was in August/September (4 aircraft, only the July class of 20 to cover them).
I thought the timing of the aircraft arrivals was interesting, five in December and one in January but the pilots to cover them won't hit IOE until mid-February at the earliest. Maybe they're thinking everyone will do some extra flying in January to pay off those Christmas bills? Or is it that they don't have to pay the new hires profitsharing for another year?
Last January started out with two classes of 20 scheduled, but then they added another January class and increased them to 26. The calls for the two originally scheduled classes went out in late November, must have been quite a nice early Christmas present. We can always hope that history will repeat itself...
Of course, all the speculation in the world isn't going to get me to Dallas any sooner. Man, I'm looking forward to that day (whenever it will be!)
T1bubba
HOUMAN
Pool Man
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2002
- Posts
- 114
Hey H.P.
HPaul,
Please help me with the proposed airplane increase for SWA for the next 14 months. The way I see it (as somebody else did in a previous post, thanks):
17 new deliveries (up from 14) for '03, - the 6 200's, = 11 net new airplanes next year (2003). 5 new airplanes for 4Q 2002.
THUS: 5 + 11 = 16 new airplanes between now and end of next year. At 11 pilots per A/C and 70 pilots lost due to attrition (retirments, etc..) that equates to roughly 250 new pilots (5% growth??)
However.....
Last I heard, SWA pilots are gobbling up open time, the reserves are just sitting around doing nothing and "tons" of guys are returning from the "war". This has led many to rumor that SWA will attempt to fill the expansion with the glut of SWA pilots doing nothing.
Or is this an inaccurate picture that management has painted for us??
So the big question for how many classes will be held, starting in January, rests with how much SWA plans to expand from the inside.
What do you think H.P.??
HPaul,
Please help me with the proposed airplane increase for SWA for the next 14 months. The way I see it (as somebody else did in a previous post, thanks):
17 new deliveries (up from 14) for '03, - the 6 200's, = 11 net new airplanes next year (2003). 5 new airplanes for 4Q 2002.
THUS: 5 + 11 = 16 new airplanes between now and end of next year. At 11 pilots per A/C and 70 pilots lost due to attrition (retirments, etc..) that equates to roughly 250 new pilots (5% growth??)
However.....
Last I heard, SWA pilots are gobbling up open time, the reserves are just sitting around doing nothing and "tons" of guys are returning from the "war". This has led many to rumor that SWA will attempt to fill the expansion with the glut of SWA pilots doing nothing.
Or is this an inaccurate picture that management has painted for us??
So the big question for how many classes will be held, starting in January, rests with how much SWA plans to expand from the inside.
What do you think H.P.??
Coming or going?
For what's it's worth, it looks like we're probably going bomb the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** out of Iraq starting in January according to most of the talking heads on CNN and Fox News. So if SWA is anticipating a return of folks back to the line soon to pick up most (or a good bit) of the upcoming open time, won't those numbers be revised with a war with Iraq?
I'm just wondering where the info on all the folks coming back came from. And if completely factual and accurate, how many? Anyone know real numbers? What would an all out airstrike starting in January do to the hiring numbers as discussed in the posts above? Any thoughts or answers here?
Looking back, from December 1990 to May 1991, SWA held 8 new-hire classes. Kind of interesting....at war, and hiring like gangbusters. Does anyone know the history behind those 6 months of hiring? Was it more for growth and expansion or to cover positions open due to those returning to military duty?
The whole thing seems to be a big question mark? Hopefully someone here can shed some light on this.
For what's it's worth, it looks like we're probably going bomb the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** out of Iraq starting in January according to most of the talking heads on CNN and Fox News. So if SWA is anticipating a return of folks back to the line soon to pick up most (or a good bit) of the upcoming open time, won't those numbers be revised with a war with Iraq?
I'm just wondering where the info on all the folks coming back came from. And if completely factual and accurate, how many? Anyone know real numbers? What would an all out airstrike starting in January do to the hiring numbers as discussed in the posts above? Any thoughts or answers here?
Looking back, from December 1990 to May 1991, SWA held 8 new-hire classes. Kind of interesting....at war, and hiring like gangbusters. Does anyone know the history behind those 6 months of hiring? Was it more for growth and expansion or to cover positions open due to those returning to military duty?
The whole thing seems to be a big question mark? Hopefully someone here can shed some light on this.
Re: Hey H.P.
HOU,
Yeah, you're on to the gist of my question. Of course, everything you or I guess here is simply that--a guess. With my original post, I was commenting on the additional aircraft (five) just announced for Q4 2002, and the coincidental announcement of classes beginning in January. Who knows if these two items are related or not, but the timing led me to believe that the company might be hiring just to cover those five airplanes. But I think T1's comments are probably more accurate then my speculation.
The wild cards here, as you pointed out, are the current rate of reserve use, and the amount of "extra" time being gobbled up. Who knows--maybe the company expects those numbers to change in the spring, which would necessitate more pilots on the line, or maybe (GASP!) they're hiring to cover any potential loss of pilots due to an activation of reservists for Iraq (I'm literally getting shivers thinking about that one--I resemble that remark). That's the real wild card here, as Coop has pointed out.
T1, I think you're right on. Let's hope history repeats itself--we're in a lot better place at this time than a year ago, right? (Hard to believe it's been a year since HPA! Happy anniversary, almost!)
I'm not much for hard liquor, but I can't wait to have a Wild Turkey shot in my hand. I think I'll be blubbering like a baby on that day.
Cheers all!
HP
HOUMAN said:
HOU,
Yeah, you're on to the gist of my question. Of course, everything you or I guess here is simply that--a guess. With my original post, I was commenting on the additional aircraft (five) just announced for Q4 2002, and the coincidental announcement of classes beginning in January. Who knows if these two items are related or not, but the timing led me to believe that the company might be hiring just to cover those five airplanes. But I think T1's comments are probably more accurate then my speculation.
The wild cards here, as you pointed out, are the current rate of reserve use, and the amount of "extra" time being gobbled up. Who knows--maybe the company expects those numbers to change in the spring, which would necessitate more pilots on the line, or maybe (GASP!) they're hiring to cover any potential loss of pilots due to an activation of reservists for Iraq (I'm literally getting shivers thinking about that one--I resemble that remark). That's the real wild card here, as Coop has pointed out.
T1, I think you're right on. Let's hope history repeats itself--we're in a lot better place at this time than a year ago, right? (Hard to believe it's been a year since HPA! Happy anniversary, almost!)
I'm not much for hard liquor, but I can't wait to have a Wild Turkey shot in my hand. I think I'll be blubbering like a baby on that day.
Cheers all!
HP
PTinbound
Kool Aid CEO
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2002
- Posts
- 264
I think I'll go with a more optimistic outlook since last week's announcements. Don't forget also that in addition to the 5 airplanes this year and net gain of now 11 airplanes in '03, there may well be a couple of classes late in '03 to cover the early '04 deliveries. See, the chlorine is already starting to wear off.
As for profit sharing, in order to be eligible for it, you have to be employed for the ENTIRE calandar year. In other words, if you get hired on DEC 31st 2003, and work all through '04, you will get a profit sharing check put into your retirement account presumably in January '05. However, if you don't get hired until Jan 3rd (there may one or two grace days on the 1st, or 1st and 2nd, I'm not sure), 2004, you won't be eligible for the '04 profit sharing that is distributed in early '05. You'd have to wait until early '06 to get the '05 check. That said, I don't reckon any of us would turn down a January 3rd class date, now would we...
I guess I've been told that going to SWA is kind of like flying an airbus... the only people that criticize it are those that don't do it, and those that do absolutely love it. The only difference is, I really believe the people that go to SWA, where I have been dying to fly for since at least 1993. After all, what's the difference between and Airbus and a chainsaw? About 1,000 trees a minute, I'm told....
As for profit sharing, in order to be eligible for it, you have to be employed for the ENTIRE calandar year. In other words, if you get hired on DEC 31st 2003, and work all through '04, you will get a profit sharing check put into your retirement account presumably in January '05. However, if you don't get hired until Jan 3rd (there may one or two grace days on the 1st, or 1st and 2nd, I'm not sure), 2004, you won't be eligible for the '04 profit sharing that is distributed in early '05. You'd have to wait until early '06 to get the '05 check. That said, I don't reckon any of us would turn down a January 3rd class date, now would we...
I guess I've been told that going to SWA is kind of like flying an airbus... the only people that criticize it are those that don't do it, and those that do absolutely love it. The only difference is, I really believe the people that go to SWA, where I have been dying to fly for since at least 1993. After all, what's the difference between and Airbus and a chainsaw? About 1,000 trees a minute, I'm told....
Cropduster
Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2002
- Posts
- 10
I've been reading PT's posts for a while now, and though it may have been in bad taste, (it did raise a smile from myself) I really don't think it lowers PT to the 10% bracket. I did however expect it to get some interesting responses. Reading PT's posts you can tell he (or she) is a true Southwest person, after all the number one rule at SWA is, if it's not a Boeing, were not going!
Take Care!!
Take Care!!
MLBWINGBORN
Freedom Fighter
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 476
If it comes down to ones taste..Then its just that..A matter of personal taste...
Poor/good taste is a matter of personal opinion..
But to call someone a jackass over something as insignificant as a difference of opinion in an open forum shows something considerably worse than poor taste...
Poor/good taste is a matter of personal opinion..
But to call someone a jackass over something as insignificant as a difference of opinion in an open forum shows something considerably worse than poor taste...
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