SWA and type rating. Is this PFT?

[getonit]

I am involved in a debate with someone on a different msg board, regarding PFT, and he unfortunately (in my opinion) lumps SWA in with those type of operators.

His argument is that SWA is able to lower their training requirements because everybody is already typed in the 737. Is that true or not? Obviously we would need to compare SWA FO 737 training to another carriers. I think that mostly we would be looking at the time spent in sim training portion of this.

Thanks.

 

[Ty Webb]

This subject has been hashed over many, many times on this board over the past 6 or 7 years. Do a search, save an electron.


The answer is going to depend on your perspective. Newhire FO's get the same training they would if they didn't have a type. Captain upgrades still have to pass the PIC checkride at the end, it's just not called a type ride.

I think the real benefit to the company is that they use it to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[miles otoole]

I am involved in a debate with someone on a different msg board, regarding PFT, and he unfortunately (in my opinion) lumps SWA in with those type of operators.

His argument is that SWA is able to lower their training requirements because everybody is already typed in the 737. Is that true or not? Obviously we would need to compare SWA FO 737 training to another carriers. I think that mostly we would be looking at the time spent in sim training portion of this.

Thanks.

If you think it is, then it is. If you don't think it is, then it isn't. My response to your friend, IMHO, would be "That's nice." People are going to believe what they want to believe. Don't lose any sleep over it.

 

[Tripower455]

As Ty said, the type is there to separate the wheat from chaff. Personally, I think it is a silly requirement, since you will do the same level of training that you would do if you weren't already typed.

It's not really PFT, since you aren't paying SWA for the type (unless they get a kickback from the type ratring mills ).

The training syllabus identical to those I went through in previous airlines, for both new hire training and upgrade.

 

[Mach 80]

Lower insurance rates with having both pilots typed in the a/c.

 

[flyer172r]

A few months ago I was talking to a SWA recruiter. She said the reason they require the type rating so they can see who really wants to work for Southwest. Is it PFT? Probably a form of it.

 

[falcon20driver]

SWA along with most other airlines require an ATP ticket, is that PFT?

I didn't get an ATP until I got a 737 type, I know a lot of military pilots that didn't either. If you have the GI Bill it's a hell of a lot cheaper to buy an ATP in a B-737-200 sim than in a Seminole when you haven't flown a piston twin or single pilot IFR in several years.

 

[PHXFLYR]

I think it's a sanatized form of PFT. While Southwest doesn't get any "kickbacks" in the true sense of the word,
one of the 737 Type rating "gin mills" Higher Power Aviation is owned and operated by a bunch of SWA guys using SWA procedures. So I guess it depends on what your definition of "is....is"

PHXFLYR

 

[enigma]

Please run a search for this topic, you'll find a lot of discussion.

I'll offer a short opinion. One needs a little perspective when looking at this situation. SWA has required the type for a long time. I believe that the requirement predates Higher Power and the other type rating schools. Those places were started in response to a market force, i.e, the need for ratings. So one can't blame them.

I believe that the rating requirement was initially much the same as a requirement for 121 PIC. It was just a way to limit the herd and to ensure that newhires could handle the soon to occur upgrade. The requirement continues to exist because their interview system doesn't test for aviation/flying skills. If they drop the requirement, they could end up with a pilot who couldn't succeed in training.

SWA is not PFT, because their is NO requirement for the newhire to write a check to SWA, nor to any of their agents. If you happen to be ex-Vanguard, etc, you would have a 737 type without ever having paid one red cent. In other words, SWA doesn't care where you got the type. There is no direct monetary reason for the type rating requirement.

If SWA were truly PFT, they would REQUIRE that all newhires pay them $18K for their initial training, regardless of whether or not the newhire is already typed. That's what the true 1990's style PFT operators did, they charged everyone, regardless of experience.

This really is simple.

enigma

 

[T-Gates]

I got a better question.....

WHO CARES????

 

[KC-10 Driver]

Posted by PHXFLYR:

While Southwest doesn't get any "kickbacks" in the true sense of the word,
one of the 737 Type rating "gin mills" Higher Power Aviation is owned and operated by a bunch of SWA guys using SWA procedures.

Actually, not true.

Higher Power (HPA) is not owned by anyone who works for Southwest, and they do not use the SWA procedures for their training. They use the Boeing procedures. And, while HPA is not owned by anyone associated with SWA, they do have a good relationship with the folks in the SWA People Department. Each HPA class gets a visit from the SWA hiring folks.

K&S Aviation in Phoenix is owned by a SWA pilot, and that school uses SWA procedures in its training.

By the way, from personal experience, I know that HPA does an excellent job, and I've heard that K&S is just as good.

Just wanted to clarify.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Thanks for the correction!

PHXFLYR

 

[capt. megadeth]

"She said the reason they require the type rating so they can see who really wants to work for Southwest"

Yeah and you spend $8000 and they still don't hire you. Maybe the recruiter should work her a$$ off for all her certificates, get into thousands of dollars into debt, get a 737 type rating and get turned down by SWA.....maybe then the idiot will have a clue!

 

[canyonblue]

Better idea might be to just require a commercial certificate, that way everyone with 250 hours could apply. Why raise the bar? If you don't like it don't apply, nobody’s going to miss you.

 

[Yahtzee]

Yeah and you spend $8000 and they still don't hire you. Maybe the recruiter should work her a$$ off for all her certificates, get into thousands of dollars into debt, get a 737 type rating and get turned down by SWA.....maybe then the idiot will have a clue!

did you mean this? or did you get possessed by some alter ego...ie, alcohol

Harsh words to write based on hearsay supposedly from a SWA Pilot Recruiter from an anonymous soul on a bulletin board

 

[SWA/FO]

Yes it is PFT. Its the best job I have ever bought. My 7400 dollar investment has returned 47,000 in year one, 83,000 year two and 105,000 in year three. It sucks... I wish, I could go back in time and make the right decision.

 

[satpak77]

Yes it is PFT. Its the best job I have ever bought. My 7400 dollar investment has returned 47,000 in year one, 83,000 year two and 105,000 in year three. It sucks... I wish, I could go back in time and make the right decision.

thats the best answer we have seen yet. That should put these PFT idiots to rest

 

[enigma]

Yes it is PFT. Its the best job I have ever bought. My 7400 dollar investment has returned 47,000 in year one, 83,000 year two and 105,000 in year three. It sucks... I wish, I could go back in time and make the right decision.

Dang dude, now you're just encouraging them.

BTW, my type rating has yet to get me hired with SWA. However, having obtained it proved to my current employer that I could succeed in a fast paced, no bs, training environment. I think it had something to do with my getting hired. So obtaining a type has other value. It proves that you have the ability to succeed.

Now, please utilize some positive waves to help my stuff get pulled for an interview call

cheers,
enigma

 

[Yahtzee]

Now, please utilize some positive waves to help my stuff get pulled for an interview call

cheers,
enigma

Enigma,

hang in there...I have no doubt you have many sources working on your behalf. Here's hoping your phone rings with the offer to come to Dallas very soon.

Yahtz

 

[Ty Webb]

I think after 5 or 6 years of reading Enigma's posts on this board, it is pretty apparent what he is made of . . . . . Southwest, if you don't hire him this time, it's your loss!