SWA airlines cost divergence

[enigma]

Re: Re: Re: enigma

Ouch!

Touche'

Well, you win the courtesy battle. Sorry for being short in the earlier post

Although they call it collective bargaining, it really is controlled by the pilots. They hold all the cards, unless the airline is faced with chapt 11.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. Working for an airline that just recently renegotiated, I can only say Wrong. The idea that the process is controlled by pilots is just a management tactic used to attempt to controll public opinion. Contract negotiation is a 50/50 proposition. There is absolutely NOTHING that gives labor an edge. Management is totally able to accept, or reject, any labor proposal; or to make any proposal that they wish. If management agrees to a contract, they are IN AGREEMENT WITH THE TERMS OF THE CONTRACT. To say otherwise is tantamount to saying that management is incompotent. BTW, while I sometimes disagree with management, I do NOT hold the belief that they are stupid.

What amazes me is the fact that over the years the BOD for most airlines has made dumb decisions when it comes to the hiring of an airline management team. They hire people who are in for themselves and this does nothing but alienate the unions. BOD's have to do a better job of structuring the hiring of a management team, and they need to structure their contracts base on incentives and penalties for profit. The employees for their part need to oversee this process and make sure the BOD aren't rewarding poor management.

Agreed on your hiring point, but employees have zero ability to oversee, management, so the BOD's will have to figure this out for themselves.

Now none of this is the case with SWA.

Then why are you predicting that SWA stock will go down, you are defacto admitting the SWA managment is doing a good job. I certainly agree.

My concern with them is will SWAPA offer to help the company if the long term good of the company is threatened in the next few years? I'm skeptical, and I hope I'm wrong.

I hate repeating myself (because that means that I must actually remember what I said), but I will; SWAPA has been helping SWA for thirty years. I think that SWAPA's track record should speak for itself. If unions were as totally self destructive as you believe, SWAPA would never have continued to work for dramatically less than industry average. Now that poor decisions have cost the jobs and salarys of pilots at the legacy carriers, you want to place the burden for recovery on all pilots backs. I don't agree. Neither SWAPA, nor any other LCCs pilot group is responsible for the shape that the rest of the industry; and none of us should take a pay cut just because Don Carty and Leo Mullin padded their retirement account. Remember, SWAPA is in large part responsible for SWA's success because SWAPA has historically teamed up with SWA management for the overall good.

I hope you are right. SWA needs to increase their margins to pay for the continued long term health of the company, and this will only happen if SWAPA accepts this fact.

Once again, SWAPA is (my opinion) quite aware of their contributions to the long term health of SWA, remember SWAPA is somewhat responsible for the past good health; and will not shoot themselves in the foot.

regards,
enigma

 

[lowecur]

enigma

Whoa..Nelly.

You think it's a 50/50 deal? Maybe between a private company like Spirit and ALPA post 9/11, but you're not going to name me too many other contracts negotiated prior to 9/11 that management didn't feel the "gun of strike" pointed at their head (other than SWA). With all the furloughs, and the eminant threat of Chapt 11, unions have all of a sudden become realistic in their approach to negotiations.

The problems between labor and management go back a long ways. Their general distrust for one another is well documented, and will continue unless there is more openess between the two.

The fact that I think SWA stock will go down, has nothing to do with the fact that I think management has done an excellent job. It's just the facts were presented very well in the analysis by Unisys spell out the eminant problems the company faces. Management has done an extraordinary job keeping SWA profitable. SWAPA I'm sure has also done their part in the past, but the world has changed since their last contract. When a company continues to make money like SWA, employees find it very hard to "give back." What they need to understand is a large company like SWA needs to have 14-15% margins in order to pay for future liabilities they will incur. There are clearly some members of SWAPA that want no part of "give backs", and I believe the FA's want a new contract in 2004 with a change in work rules. I hope SWA will not degenerate to the levels of many of the legacys. They are a great airline, but success breeds contempt.

Read this article on Gerald Arpey and his hopes for AMR. I think he has nailed it, but only time will prove me right.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3812866/

 

[FDJ2]

Re: enigma

Whoa..Nelly.

You think it's a 50/50 deal? Maybe between a private company like Spirit and ALPA post 9/11, but you're not going to name me too many other contracts negotiated prior to 9/11 that management didn't feel the "gun of strike" pointed at their head (other than SWA).

With the exception of CMR, I believe airline management stopped feeling the "gun of strike", particularly a major airline strike, shortly after G.W. Bush took office. Remenber that GW stated that there would be no major airline strikes. Since his administration now effectively controls the NMB, the NLRB and can invoke a PEB, the threat of a major airline strike has been greatly curbed. I just don't see a major airline pilot group being released for self help in any timely manner. The section six process can drag on nearly as long as the original contract's duration.

 

[lowecur]

RDJ2

With the exception of CMR, I believe airline management stopped feeling the "gun of strike", particularly a major airline strike, shortly after G.W. Bush took office. Remenber that GW stated that there would be no major airline strikes. Since his administration now effectively controls the NMB, the NLRB and can invoke a PEB, the threat of a major airline strike has been greatly curbed. I just don't see a major airline pilot group being released for self help in any timely manner. The section six process can drag on nearly as long as the original contract's duration.

9/11 happened 9 months after Bush took office. The Airline World changed on that date, and of course the administrations control over these institutions helps. That still doesn't preclude the fact that administrations change, and so do the rules from time to time. Although the word "strike" is out of the question today, there are still other methods used to get across "union solidarity," such as slow downs and sick outs.