Surplus1 and General Lee thread

[General Lee]

Ok, here is our new thread.

I actually think you have some good points about what should have happened once our guys started to get furloughed --Nov 1st, 2001. That sorta sounds like a one list idea. I am totally supportive of one list, and always was---even before 9-11. The only sticking point was DOH. There was no way any ASA/Comair pilot was going to get DOH according to every Delta pilot. IF that wasn't bad for you, then I bet you would have gone along too. (Especially since 2nd year pay on the MD88 was $105 an hour)
I agree that we all should have stuck together, and that didn't happen.

Now, on the rest of your comments. We did help you on your strike, and we wanted you to win. We wanted you to get better pay, and we wanted you to get better work rules. The scope deal is important, and you are actually seeing it for yourselves right now with Chit-talk and Skywest. If you don't protect your flying, it may be taken away from you. Look at your MCO hub. I know you currently still fly out of there a lot, but that will eventually be over--Chit-talk taking most of it. If you had better scope, a lot of your Captains' wouldn't have to jumpseat to CVG to fly their trips--they could have started in MCO. You have been the recipient of much of the benefits, but now you are getting bumped out of markets by lower paid pilots. That has been happening to us for about 8 years. We are just trying to protect the flying we still have. I happen to like the 70 seat RJ's--I think they look cool. There are probably plenty of markets that the 70 seaters or 90 seaters could fly to. And I understand that the more of those that you have, the better the pay for more of you. But it works backwards for us. The less 737-200's out there, the less pay for us. (757 FO's usually bid up to 737-200 Capt---which means more pay---just like you) Unlimited 70 seaters would mean the end to the 737-200's. Those 757 FO's would stay on the 757/767 longer, stalling upward movement---just like you.
If you had unlimited 70 seaters or 90 seaters, why should we have any MD-88's? We could put 2 70 seaters or 1 90 seater and a 50 seater in place of that MD-88, for porbably cheaper crew costs. Why would we sacrifice that? The way it should be is that pilots at Comair and ASA should spend some time at their respective regional, and eventually move up to Delta if they wish.
There should have been a flowthru or a preferential hiring interview etc. I don't know what was said between Lawson and Buergey, but nothing was solved. All we know is that the furloughees are still out. Hopefully that is changing with the arbitration, and we should know later this week. The key point is that the ASA MEC did NOT overly object to the Delta Furloughees coming to their list--and there will be some preferential hiring for them eventually. (our retired Captains that do the interviews will be briefed----by guys like me) I know that most of the Comair pilots had no say in this, and most would not shove it in their face if they met a furloughed Delta pilot. This whole scope thing goes both ways, and while you are not making as much as you want to at the moment, 1060 of our guys are making nothing, which is not your fault. Scope sometimes is a necessary evil---which you will see with Chit-talk.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ERJpusher]

The name is CHAUTAUQUA.

I've been watching you trash our name on every message you have posted. You're a pilot for a major airline. It's time you either grow up and act your age, or learn how to spell.

I'm just another person trying to earn a living in the aviation industry and I do not appreciate your derogatory remarks about my company.

 

[JTrain]

Mr. ERJPusher,

>I'm just another person trying to earn a living in the aviation >industry and I do not appreciate your derogatory remarks about >my company.

You'd better get used to derogatory remarks about Chit-talk-Qua. Your company, along with Mesa, is at the forefront of the demise of the piloting profession. The only way you earn you living is because your company pays you dirt for wages, which allows you guys to undercut the likes of CMR, ASA, ACA, SkyWest, American Eagle + the wholly-owned USAirways Expresses & grow. Do you think you're advancing your career by flying an ERJ for CHQ? Maybe - but also realize that every ERJ you guys take, be it for DAL, American Connection, USAirways Express, or America West likely means you'll be stuck at CHQ for a heck of a lot longer than you'd like. Fact of the matter is, all that growth that you're getting bubbly about is the simple result of DAL & others turning towards you because your costs are the least because your company pays your employees the least. If we as airline pilots don't watch it, it will soon be a race to the bottom, with each carrier seeing how they can shave pilot pay, work rules, benefits, vacation, 401Ks, etc..., in an effort to be the cheapest, and then you will truly be getting bus driver pay to go along with your glorified bus driver job.

Here's something you can do to remedy the situation. Tell your pilots to get a respectable contract with decent work rules. Something along the lines of what CMR, ACA, ASA, Air Wisconsin & SkyWest has; that's a good basic framework for a regional & hopefully you can improve on that. On 3rd year CRJ FO pay here at ACA, I brought in slightly more than $42,500 last year. Every time we take a hotel van with another regional crew, I know I'm always the 3rd best paid guy on that van (behind my CA & the other regional's CA). Occasionally when we travel with a third tier regional, as an RJ FO at ACA, I'm even better paid than many Saab or B1900 CAs.

This piloting professional has a dismal future to look forward to if people like yourself rationalize their meager incomes by saying they're "trying to earn a living" or "trying to build experience." Raise the bar, young man. We're all going to be stuck at the regionals for a long long time if not forever; might as well make it as good a place as it can possibly be. I have friends at Chautauqua (I am capable of spelling your co.'s name properly if I so desire) who say you guys may strike soon if your contract impass is not resolved; I hope they are right or that you guys manage to raise the bar. Because every time you fly an RJ for cheaper than me, you put downward pressure on my income & everything my regional's contract has accomplished.

I hope I gave you plenty to think about

JT

 

[ERJpusher]

Spare me the lecture. I may be new IN the industry but I'm nowhere near new TO the industry.

My father is a captain at a major, so I've experienced and seen the ups and downs of the industry my entire life. Times have been good and times have been bad. I know exactly what I'm getting myself into. Sure, I want to make more money, but I'm willing to wait my turn. People doing our jobs 10-15 years ago could have only dreamed about the money we are making right now. I'm glad for you that you make more than most of the people in your hotel van, and I hope that I will also be soon, but that isn't the situation I stepped into. And I'm above the name calling and the finger pointing, so I would never make any comments about the place you or anyone else chooses to work.

FYI, we were presented with a contract with the same payscale as Comair, but we didn't agree with newly-added work rules, so we rejected it. We as a pilot group are trying to do our part to preserve the integrity of the industry.

If people have comments about the company, write a letter to our management and let them know about it. Our pilots aren't out to sabotage the industry. We want what's rightfully ours just like everyone else.

 

[Mayday911]

I hope that you are right and the pilots of CHQ are helping to raise the bar for themselves and the entire profession...unfortunatley after seeing the Mesa TA highlights, I will believe it when I see it.

ERJpusher, ask your Dad to explain to you how he and his colleagues felt when NY Air was started or when United hired their fleet quals to replace striking UAL pilots. These things happened because pilots were willing to work for peanuts to fly an airplane. When a pilot group and/or company benefit with new flying opportunities because they undercut or lowballed the bid of another company. It is the same **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing.

Good luck with your negotiations,
Mayday

 

[Mayday911]

I hope that you are right and the pilots of CHQ are helping to raise the bar for themselves and the entire profession...unfortunatley after seeing the Mesa TA highlights, I will believe it when I see it.

ERJpusher, ask your Dad to explain to you how he and his colleagues felt when NY Air was started or when United hired their fleet quals to replace striking UAL pilots. These things happened because pilots were willing to work for peanuts to fly an airplane. When a pilot group and/or company benefit with new flying opportunities because they undercut or lowballed the bid of another company. It is the same stinkin' thing.

Good luck with your negotiations,
Mayday

 

[JTrain]

ERJPusher: The *only* reason your company is growing is because of your ridiculously cheap labor costs. ACA, SkyWest, CMR, ASA all have respectable contracts compared to CHQ. I heard when you guys got the MCO operation, your company put in such a lowball offer to DAL, it was not even worth it for any of the other DCI companies to put in a competing offer. And of course CEO Bryan Bedford must be thrilled to have people like you who are so impressionable & blown away by flying a brand new 50 seat ERJ that you'll do it for next to nothing. Raise the bar!!! You talk the talk - you said you guys turned down a comperable contract to CMR; now walk the walk and GET that contract. And when you get that contract, watch your cost advantage relative to the other DCI's disappear, along with it your company's growth prospects.

 

[CHQdude]

Jtrain,

Remember Comair used to get paid dirt.... less than us. Times do change, and one day I might make more than YOU on that van....who knows. Then can I get on here and bitch about you ruining my precious contract???

Fact is we're just now getting bigger, at just barely over 600 pilots. We were almost unheard of on these boards 3 years ago. The bigger we get the more leverage we have in negotiations. Its all a process. Trust me we are working hard to get what is rightfully ours just like ERJpusher stated. We have some big obstacles in our way like this whole republic thing, which you can help us with. Spread the word. Republic has the potential to threaten our collective bargaining power with its alter-ego like qualities. For now call us what you want I personally dont care. Chit-taco, Chit-talk-qua, whatever makes you happy.

 

[climbhappy]

jtrain....you're incompetent!

i can't believe the banter coimg off your tongue... erjpusher is responsible for the demise of the industry along with his company....man you're so misinformed...


guess what pal, ALpa and the recession caused this demise...when you have this kind of downward pressure on wages, 10 billion plus in major losses in 2002, plus the bankruptsy filing of several major and national airlines, its bigger than one company or two...lay off of mesa and chatauqua...you know what...

everybody is treading water and swimming right now and you have to step on your prick and start this bull#$%@ meandering about a pilot group who cannot control nor dictate the outcome and content of any labor related issures...

jtrain...you're a bloomin onion...yes that's right and the less you and other meatheads quit bashing pilots for regionals that pay them to support their families...the better....your tired ass crap about ...oh yeah man....your the reason...your an ass... motha ...

 

[delivery100]

JTrain,

You can not blame airlines like Chautauqua for their growth and ability to underbid other regionals and move into their territory. Its the nature of the airline business: expansion, profitibility and growth. Being a furloughed UAL pilot, I could blame you for taking my job and flying my routes. How do YOU feel knowing that your making only 42,500 on flying some of the same routes that I flew for 120,000? Your really doing a good job 'raising the bar!' Should I blame Jetblue and Southwest for taking more and more of the domestic traffic from the Majors? Are their companies at the forefront of the demise of the piloting profession?

So I guess the question is, where do we draw the line? What wages will we as professional pilots work for, and what wages won't we work for?

The answer is, I don't know! But I do know that you should not blame the guy at Chautauqua, and I should not blame you and the guy at Jetblue and Southwest for the ability to fly a UAL route cheaper than I could. Its just the way it is. Chautauqua pilots are a unionized workforce that I understand is in negotiations for a much better contract.

Just curious, why would he not be advancing his career by flying an RJ for CHQ? And why would he be stuck at CHQ longer with the additional Erj's added to the fleet?