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Sundries on the Jet: The next threat

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It's neither a threat nor particularly new. Ryanair has been charging for everything for years, and the rest of the world is following. International flights have long had "duty free" shopping on board, and the "home delivery option" has for years been known as "Skymall". Bring your own food and don't buy overpriced crap if you don't like it (always good advice anyway).


Nice.... but I maintain it is a threat.....

And you mentioned Ryan Air in Europe...

Now I've heard that some pilots think Ryan Air is a good place to work.. an opportunity perhaps for US pilots looking for work....


Ryan Air sells incredibly cheap tickets. O'leary makes his money selling ancillary services and products like wheelchair requests, food, products, baggage, etc...

Ryan Air is a transnational airline. It has operating certificates in one country and labor based in a different country. So it finds the country with cheapest laws for its certificate and labor.

Imagine as a US pilot flying for a Mexican airline that has an operating certificate from Trinidad/Tabago and a crew base in Aruba. What labor law do you fall under? As a US pilot can you image trying to enforce gov't law or a union contract in Aruba? Or is it Trinidad because that is where the certificate is.. or is it Mexico because that is where the corporate headquarters is....


Back to the main issue.....


First.... Ryan treats its pilots like Mesa does. The Ryan/Mesa model is what the global start ups are copying... not SWA...... Many pilots at Ryan air are "indentured Servants" because they are so deep in debt.. they can't afford to quit working and look for another 'career'.... Sound familiar Mr. Regional Jet Pilot?


But just as important... since Ryan Air and now other airlines are making money from ancillary sales... the airline ticket is not the primary revenue source....

If you think airline management doesn't give a damm about us now... wait till we are no longer the primary generator of revenue.... How will management view all the cost of safety, training, mx, etc when they realize that there is no money there... They will want to dump money into marketing schemes to sell stuff..

Of course one has to consider how management thinks... not how we think....
 
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Rez....If you go to a concert....Is the food and drink free? How about a movie?

Car rental, hotels, and airlines are learning how to compete in the internet age.....Search engines list the cheapest tickets and that is what people buy....Once the person buys the ticket....you charge them for the "ala carte" items they want....bags, food, etc.....

Airline managements are learning to increase revenues and you complain about it.....amazing....
 
I wonder if there's a way that tickets can be booked the normal way, with the option, after selecting the ticket, of adding a meal to your flight for an extra $10.00+ dollars. That way, the ticket has already been selected for its price (thereby staying competitive), and this is done before the ticket is actually purchased.

Order your meal in advance. Again, that way they don't have to add the cost to the actual ticket, but rather as an option later on. "Tickets must be booked 24 hours in advance for this option, bla bla bla," so as to not worry about waste but have enough time to get them on from catering.

I don't see why this would be a problem for our wages. Cruise liners have all sorts of paid services and shops, which dramatically increase revenue.

In addition, eating, ordering food, ordering merchandise off a menu are all ways of passing time. Americans are buy-crazy.
 
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I wonder if there's a way that tickets can be booked the normal way, with the option, after selecting the ticket, of adding a meal to your flight for an extra $10.00+ dollars. That way, the ticket has already been selected for its price (thereby staying competitive), and this is done before the ticket is actually purchased.

Order your meal in advance. Again, that way they don't have to add the cost to the actual ticket, but rather as an option later on. "Tickets must be booked 24 hours in advance for this option, bla bla bla," so as to not worry about waste but have enough time to get them on from catering.

I don't see why this would be a problem for our wages. Cruise liners have all sorts of paid services and shops, which dramatically increase revenue.

cruise lines are for pleasure... not vital to the US economy as is air transportation...

In addition, eating, ordering food, ordering merchandise off a menu are all ways of passing time. Americans are buy-crazy.


I am not arguing the innovation (need) of dealing with the evolving market....

I am talking about how we evolve with the market... If you don't understand your "place" in the market.... how can you stay in the market..??

If pilots and FA's safely moving people in the seat is no longer THE main revenue generator and selling additional goods and services is... then we lose value in the minds of management.

If we are no longer as valuable to management as before.. will it be harder or easier to negotiate fair and reasonable pay and benefits?
 
Rez....If you go to a concert....Is the food and drink free? How about a movie?
You can leave in those examples. On an airplane in flight, you are stuck.

The airlines historically offered soft drinks and checked bags as part of the ticket price. It was part of "the service".

They have forgotten service, and made themselves into a commodity. I remember when I was a kid, my Dad would book on TWA, or we drove. That was it. Now America goes for the lowest bidder and complains about the crappy service.

Nickel and Dimeing your customers is NO WAY to gain customer loyalty.
 
Nice.... but I maintain it is a threat.....



Back to the main issue.....

Sound familiar Mr. Regional Jet Pilot?

Of course one has to consider how management thinks... not how we think....

Rez.


1. The "MAIN ISSUE" is profitability. It is in fact, the ONLY issue, and the steps you cite as "threats" are in fact a piece of the puzzle that airlines are trying in the never ending search for profitability. I don't say this switch to emulate parts of RyanAir are smart, or good, or workable . . only that their is nothing particularly new about them.

Other than raising ticket prices (not a good idea during a downturn) or nationalization via re-regulation with the new administration coming (good for pilots in on the ground floor, bad for everyone else) . . what ideas do you have?

2. No one is so disproportionally obsessed with what aircraft or what company flightinfo posters fly for as you seem to be (except maybe TankerClown). You're happy to be at AirTran, so good for you, I guess. AirTran is not exactly a "major" or particularly profitable carrier: indeed, Airtran just tries to scrape some sort of profit in direct competition with Delta (UAL/Frontier/SWA - DEN anyone?); it must be a great place or you wouldn't be there . . .right?

I assure you, I am quite happy with my current carrier and their growth plan. But even when I was "Mr Regional Jet Pilot" at a crummy carrier like Mesa, I kept my head high. It was a voluntary decision, and when I'd had enough, I parlayed my experience earned at Mesa to a much, much better job. I hasten to add, I'd do it again in a heartbeat for an even better deal . . . welcome to the world of "professionals".
 
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Rez.


1. The "MAIN ISSUE" is profitability. It is in fact, the ONLY issue, and the steps you cite as "threats" are in fact a piece of the puzzle that airlines are trying in the never ending search for profitability. I don't say this switch to emulate parts of RyanAir are smart, or good, or workable . . only that their is nothing particularly new about them.

That is managements responsibility. Pilots have no say.. nor should they, in the business operation of their company.

This does place us pilots at the mercy of our managements.

Other than raising ticket prices (not a good idea during a downturn) or nationalization via re-regulation with the new administration coming (good for pilots in on the ground floor, bad for everyone else) . . what ideas do you have?

The way to profitability is productivity. I suggest SWA style management for Airtran and the majors.

2. No one is so disproportionally obsessed with what aircraft or what company flightinfo posters fly for as you seem to be (except maybe TankerClown). You're happy to be at AirTran, so good for you, I guess. AirTran is not exactly a "major" or particularly profitable carrier: indeed, Airtran just tries to scrape some sort of profit in direct competition with Delta (UAL/Frontier/SWA - DEN anyone?); it must be a great place or you wouldn't be there . . .right?

Whatever...

I assure you, I am quite happy with my current carrier and their growth plan. But even when I was "Mr Regional Jet Pilot" at a crummy carrier like Mesa, I kept my head high. It was a voluntary decision, and when I'd had enough, I parlayed my experience earned at Mesa to a much, much better job. I hasten to add, I'd do it again in a heartbeat for an even better deal . . . welcome to the world of "professionals".

So what happens when one gets to Airtran or DAL and doesn't want to go anywhere?

Can't they work to make their current profession better. We can't control our managements but we can understand that market forces that will negatively affect them and respond....

no?
 
That is managements responsibility. Pilots have no say.. nor should they, in the business operation of their company.

Yet YOU are trying to have a say in the business operation.....You are contradicting your own message.....Take your own advice and let them charge for "extras"....More revenue is a good thing....except to you socialists.....
 

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