Student Endoresement: High Perf / Complex

[Whiskey Tango]

cowl flaps do not equal "flaps"
Flaps are flaps. Arrows do not have cowl flaps but they do have flaps, constant speed prop, and retractable gear so they are complex.

I know a guy who half way through training bought a socata trinidad. I took a few hours to ajust to things but then it was what he was used to and really no different than a 152.

 

[propilot]

So you'll never get be able to get complex endorsement in any Piper "training" aircraft!

That must be why I got my complex in a Cessna 182RG!

...curious as to where you classify the almighty Piper Arrow...pretty sure most people put that in the Piper "training" aircraft category...

 

[DaveJ]

I own one

Yeah, Piper classifies the Arrow as a training a/c (as opposed to personal or business/professional).

 

[User546]

My point about all Piper "training" aircraft, including the Arrow, is that none of them have electric flaps. Just the manual, use your arm strength to extend and retract type.

The Arrow is the closest thing to a complex with the constant speed prop and retract gear, but the flaps are still manual - no electric.

This by definition would not make them complex.

 

[DaveJ]

You don't need electric flaps, you just need flaps. The early Mooneys didn't have electric flaps either (or gear for that matter), but both the Mooneys and the Arrow are complex a/c by the regs.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

the regs say flaps it does not say how it is powered. An arrow in a complex aircraft. Maybe you should get out your NASA form

 

[User546]

the regs say flaps it does not say how it is powered. An arrow in a complex aircraft. Maybe you should get out your NASA form

No kidding (shaking head)

I have always understood the complex to be electric flaps, and I remember my primary instructor very cleary stating that a Piper trainer would not qualify as a complex for the reason of the flaps.

As I re-read the appropriate FAR's you gentleman are correct.

My blind faith, and the law of primacy at it's best.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

law of primacy is strong. It sucks when find out your primary instructor is wrong about this or that.

 

[Hootie9750]

I had a student with 4 hours buy a cherokee 235. No biggie it's not that much faster than a 172 in cruise and its still a cherokee airframe manuevers wise and if he gets into trouble he can at least climb fast (forget it in a 152). I put his student pilot certificate # in the endorsment to cover my @ss and I have soloed him and his son no problem.

 

[User546]

law of primacy is strong. It sucks when find out your primary instructor is wrong about this or that.

Yea, especially when your the instructor now! I like to think that I do my homework, and keep current with the information required to teach, but every once in awhile one of these doozies pop up to confront me!