Straw Poll

[RickKC-135]

Guy's I have to throw this in the pot. I know it's illegal but it happened. Had a friend with 14 years interview at a major a few months ago. He was asked what his plans were to complete his AF time to get the retirement. He said he would probably look for a guard job. He said the look on the interviewer summed up his chances of getting hired. Needless to say he got turned down.

 

[Huggyu2]

Albie,
Yeah, you're spot on. My circumstances were unique to me, and it has worked out real well. I knew I was going to be able to avoid most of the negative QOL issues (although the long days here in the office can't really be avoided).
I suppose the scenario I proposed is best for someone who's definitely leaning to get a 20 year active duty retirement: if you're going to do it, use the USERRA law to help you accrue seniority for the last 5 years. The biggest "stressor" is the uncertainty of whether you'd be able to come back on active duty ~1 year after you leave it.

 

[Mooseflyer]

Lots of good thoughts here. Many guys are mentioning to "get out and get a guard/reserve job" or an AGR job. Before you, er, ah, "this guy" pulls the trigger on active duty, make sure that you/he can actually find a slot. Many units are jam packed right now and aren't hiring due to the crappy situation on the outside. My unit, for example, is over 110% manned and isn't even hiring guys who are already fully qualified in the airplane. As a matter of fact, we're going to be giving up a few airframes in the future and will actually be looking for volunteers to retire or separate. If there aren't enough volunteers, guys will be "volunteered". Who would have thought you could be furloughed from the USAFR?

Also mentioned is "give the extra time to family" after you get out. Depending on your deployment cycle and/or additional duties on AD and the airline you end up with, one may very well have less time at home in the civ world than he did in the military, especially as a commuter (and as a guard/reserve guy, you'll almost certainly be commuting to one job or the other). Suddenly 200 days TDY per year may not look so bad. Things to ponder.......

 

[Tnkr Pilot]

All – great perspectives and deep thoughts, it seems to be one of the biggest decision in ones’ career and rightfully so. I remember how I felt when I got my pilot slot and then pinned on my wings, however, endless deployments and BS have dulled the enchantment long ago. The flip side is the many thanks from random strangers when you pick up some milk at the store…people realize the sacrifices. Two thoughts to add: 1) How will the age 60 (65) rule cloud the picture…always fly corporate/FE if it doesn’t pass 2) How many more PCS’s are you willing to go through -- as a Maj/Lt Col you’ll be on a conveyer belt for PME, Staff jobs, etc. - Fly Safe!

 

[DLax85]

20 yrs ago as a young Lt, I heard a wise-old United Captain, who was also a Colonel in the USAF Reserve, say...."if you get out and expect to fly for the airlines and the Reserve with an "increase" in your QOL, you need to be sure that at least 2 out of the 3 (...your house, your domicile and/or your reserve unit) are in the same city"....since I always got what I asked for at the critical 7 yr and 14 yr points, I ended up staying in and taking the bonus till 20 yrs...if you want a shot at flying for a major airline on the outside when you retire, you will have to make sure your are at least flying as an attached guy on your last tour. Good luck with your decision.

 

[stonewall]

Guy's I have to throw this in the pot. I know it's illegal but it happened. Had a friend with 14 years interview at a major a few months ago. He was asked what his plans were to complete his AF time to get the retirement. He said he would probably look for a guard job. He said the look on the interviewer summed up his chances of getting hired. Needless to say he got turned down.

I'm not sure what airline, but we (my unit) just had a guy turned down at SWA. He had the type, lots of recs, felt like he did great in the interview, and no dice. They DID ask him about the Guard. He said out of 11 guys hired at the DB, only 2 were military. There is LOTS of buzz that SWA is taking it on the chin with activations and mil leaves, and therefore not hiring mil guys. Don't know how accurate that is, but it's complete BS if true. The civvie guys will love it, but it ain't right. Discrimination is discrimination. However, something like that can't be proven.

Any SWA guys have any intel on this?

 

[stonewall]

Huggy,

Your plan has merit, but one big drawback.

You DO have to go back in for 5 years. You DO have to fill out leave when you want days off. You can get shacked for 90/120/180/1 year bad deal non-flying gigs. You actually have to do all those ancillary training squares than a good NCO can make "disappear" for a part time guy. In other words...you still have to a full time guy. Beats working...or being unemployed...but its dang hard work some days.

I know its got its merits...I considered your plan when I had the chance. However, these days a great week is an F-15 sortie, a nice day trip somewhere in a 727, and a weekend jaunt in my Navion. Even if you come out on top money wise, that Q of life is worth something. Everyone has their own matrix, and there are no universal answers.

And Moose--your math is valid. However, if you were lucky enough to grab a nice piece of property during at the right time 2-3 years ago you might have more than made up for lost retirement wages with some smart investments. I won't knock living on Uncle Sam's tit as a very solid option, but its certainly not the ONLY way to make an income. The nice thing about NOT being full time is it allows you the time to pursue those other options that interest you. I've seen more than a few pilots make up what they bypassed with a retirement check with other sources of income.

Good luck to all--its an agonizing choice.

You also have to get orders for 5 years. They ain't exactly handing them out like candy these days. My OG just asked me to apply for an AGR gig in my squadron. I said no, simply b/c we have too many guys in my unit scrambling for orders. Lots of UA/DL guys. I'd feel guilty. Besides, I DO like my FDX/Guard life right now, so I'm not all heart.

I know how fortunate I am. I got out at 9.5 yrs, signed into the Guard and started FDX the next day. However, if I was at 14 yrs and didn't have a FDX or UPS gig waiting, I'd stay. IF I could go Guard/Reserve on full time orders vs AD, I'd take that since you have more options down the road. Anyway, it worked out for me, and I'll stay in the Guard until they kick me out.

Yes, I'll be one of those dinosaurs not flying BFM in the F-22 when I'm 50. Sue me.

 

[Deuce130]

I also agonize over this decision, though a bit different. I've got the FDX job and I've got a reserve job in Florida. However, my contemplation is whether to quit the reserves or not. I could move to Memphis, make a boatload of dollars and be home with my wife and kid EVERYDAY. On the flipside, I could stay in FL, fly with a reserve unit that I love with great guys that I love, but I would be on the road two weeks a year. In other words, Dad would always be in a state of "coming or going" for the next 10 years until I retire. Tough call, not sure what to do.

 

[stonewall]

I also agonize over this decision, though a bit different. I've got the FDX job and I've got a reserve job in Florida. However, my contemplation is whether to quit the reserves or not. I could move to Memphis, make a boatload of dollars and be home with my wife and kid EVERYDAY. On the flipside, I could stay in FL, fly with a reserve unit that I love with great guys that I love, but I would be on the road two weeks a year. In other words, Dad would always be in a state of "coming or going" for the next 10 years until I retire. Tough call, not sure what to do.

I have zero faith that our FDX pension will be there in 27 years. If you can make it to 20 with the AF, you need to do it. I know Albie has mentioned this before, but if FDX is gonna cnx our pension, just do it now and pay us more. We could be better off in the long run.

Besides, Deuce, I don't think AFSOC can make it without you. YOU OWE IT TO YOUR COUNTRY!

 

[Deuce130]

Besides, Deuce, I don't think AFSOC can make it without you. quote]

You're too kind .... but I think they'll be just fine!

 

[pilotyip]

also agonize over this decision, though a bit different. I've got the FDX job and I've got a reserve job in Florida. However, my contemplation is whether to quit the reserves or not. I could move to Memphis, make a boatload of dollars and be home with my wife and kid EVERYDAY. On the flipside, I could stay in FL, fly with a reserve unit that I love with great guys that I love, but I would be on the road two weeks a year. In other words, Dad would always be in a state of "coming or going" for the next 10 years until I retire. Tough call, not sure what to do.
Reminds me of a time when I was jumpseating on DAL back in 2001, pre-911. Talking with the pilots enroute. Both had quit the reserves at around the 14-year mark. They said their DAL pension was so solid they did not need the military retirement. They said it was not worth giving up the QOL improvement for an age 60 thing they would not need. I also have other DAL friends who stuck out their 20 in the reserves, they tell me now it was the smartest decision they ever made, primarily because of the coverage of Tricare for life. I know I would not have decent retirement without the mil retirement.

 

[AlbieF15]

An AFSOC warrior like has has certainly earned a break. What about a reserve teaching position at Little Rock or Columbus? Again--those slots are competitive...but so are you. Live in Mem and do your thing (think out and backs...) and go 5-7 days a month down the street or across the river to teach.

 

[scoreboard]

I'm not sure what airline, but we (my unit) just had a guy turned down at SWA. He had the type, lots of recs, felt like he did great in the interview, and no dice. They DID ask him about the Guard. He said out of 11 guys hired at the DB, only 2 were military. There is LOTS of buzz that SWA is taking it on the chin with activations and mil leaves, and therefore not hiring mil guys. Don't know how accurate that is, but it's complete BS if true. The civvie guys will love it, but it ain't right. Discrimination is discrimination. However, something like that can't be proven.

Any SWA guys have any intel on this?

I know your friend doesn't think so but this is a tad bit humorous, months ago civilians where complaining we hired to many military. I'm pretty sure there is no new haze. Your seeing a snapshot in time, no trend or shift. Still hiring 50/50 mil/civ. If a Decision board changes that ratio, there are numerous reasons why, background checks could be the biggest. Your bud may have been your bud, but maybe left a smoldering bridge back in the day. Remember, the 11 hired were not the only ones hired, just the ones he knows about. When I was hired, me and the other Military guy were the only ones hired out of our 11 interviewed. PIC time is golden.

I know of no Buzz and no mass activation by any AGR guys, if anything there are fewer gone, its more of a ground operations war these days.

 

[AlbieF15]

There are some data points out there Scoreboard that point to those accusations having some merit. Retired mil=usually hired. Still in the ANG? Odds and numbers show a skewed line down. And no--it isn't just your company...

 

[malterf15]

Thanks

Thanks for all the responses. Gives me (and it looks like many others) a lot to think about.
It looks like it boils down to security vs risk/reward. Looks like the balance is a bit towards security.

Of course it's complicated...kids, health care, etc...not just the job security, but my first thought is I don't want to put myself in a position where $30K/year makes that big of a difference. Where that much (or little) is enough to make a significant impact on my options.
Also, I think the financial side of the airlines is not in the pay, but the flexibility with your time giving you the opportunity to leverage that pay into wealth.
I did the chalk board plus/minus of the decisions, but that seems to be a bit too simple to take the weight of each option into full account. Does financial security (AD retirement) outweigh 6 years of opportunity? Maybe - it depends on what I do with that opportunity and of course luck.

I'm leaning toward seizing opportunity, rather than the comfort of the nipple. :beer:
More thoughts?