Straw Poll

[pilotyip]

also agonize over this decision, though a bit different. I've got the FDX job and I've got a reserve job in Florida. However, my contemplation is whether to quit the reserves or not. I could move to Memphis, make a boatload of dollars and be home with my wife and kid EVERYDAY. On the flipside, I could stay in FL, fly with a reserve unit that I love with great guys that I love, but I would be on the road two weeks a year. In other words, Dad would always be in a state of "coming or going" for the next 10 years until I retire. Tough call, not sure what to do.
Reminds me of a time when I was jumpseating on DAL back in 2001, pre-911. Talking with the pilots enroute. Both had quit the reserves at around the 14-year mark. They said their DAL pension was so solid they did not need the military retirement. They said it was not worth giving up the QOL improvement for an age 60 thing they would not need. I also have other DAL friends who stuck out their 20 in the reserves, they tell me now it was the smartest decision they ever made, primarily because of the coverage of Tricare for life. I know I would not have decent retirement without the mil retirement.

 

[AlbieF15]

An AFSOC warrior like has has certainly earned a break. What about a reserve teaching position at Little Rock or Columbus? Again--those slots are competitive...but so are you. Live in Mem and do your thing (think out and backs...) and go 5-7 days a month down the street or across the river to teach.

 

[scoreboard]

I'm not sure what airline, but we (my unit) just had a guy turned down at SWA. He had the type, lots of recs, felt like he did great in the interview, and no dice. They DID ask him about the Guard. He said out of 11 guys hired at the DB, only 2 were military. There is LOTS of buzz that SWA is taking it on the chin with activations and mil leaves, and therefore not hiring mil guys. Don't know how accurate that is, but it's complete BS if true. The civvie guys will love it, but it ain't right. Discrimination is discrimination. However, something like that can't be proven.

Any SWA guys have any intel on this?

I know your friend doesn't think so but this is a tad bit humorous, months ago civilians where complaining we hired to many military. I'm pretty sure there is no new haze. Your seeing a snapshot in time, no trend or shift. Still hiring 50/50 mil/civ. If a Decision board changes that ratio, there are numerous reasons why, background checks could be the biggest. Your bud may have been your bud, but maybe left a smoldering bridge back in the day. Remember, the 11 hired were not the only ones hired, just the ones he knows about. When I was hired, me and the other Military guy were the only ones hired out of our 11 interviewed. PIC time is golden.

I know of no Buzz and no mass activation by any AGR guys, if anything there are fewer gone, its more of a ground operations war these days.

 

[AlbieF15]

There are some data points out there Scoreboard that point to those accusations having some merit. Retired mil=usually hired. Still in the ANG? Odds and numbers show a skewed line down. And no--it isn't just your company...

 

[malterf15]

Thanks

Thanks for all the responses. Gives me (and it looks like many others) a lot to think about.
It looks like it boils down to security vs risk/reward. Looks like the balance is a bit towards security.

Of course it's complicated...kids, health care, etc...not just the job security, but my first thought is I don't want to put myself in a position where $30K/year makes that big of a difference. Where that much (or little) is enough to make a significant impact on my options.
Also, I think the financial side of the airlines is not in the pay, but the flexibility with your time giving you the opportunity to leverage that pay into wealth.
I did the chalk board plus/minus of the decisions, but that seems to be a bit too simple to take the weight of each option into full account. Does financial security (AD retirement) outweigh 6 years of opportunity? Maybe - it depends on what I do with that opportunity and of course luck.

I'm leaning toward seizing opportunity, rather than the comfort of the nipple. :beer:
More thoughts?

 

[pilotyip]

You will know in 6 years if you have made the right decision, no matter what decision you make.

 

[MalteseX]

This got me thinking.......so how much is the active duty retirement worth over the reserve retirement?

Let's assume "Joe" did ROTC in college and went on active duty at age 23. Joe is now at the 16 year point and is age 37. He decides to do 6 more years, retires as an O-5, and begins collecting retirement at age 43. His buddy "Ted" gets out at the 16 year point, joins the reserve, but won't collect retirement until age 60. How much more is Joe being "paid" on an annual basis?

In other words, Joe can expect a retirment check of $3500/month before taxes. If Uncle Sam actually paid him money each of the 6 additional years instead of promising him a pension, how much would they have to pay him per year so that he may invest it and later withdraw the same $3500/month between ages 43 and 60?

A quick run through the MSN retirement calculator shows that in order to draw $3500/mo for 17 years (between age 43 and 60), Joe would have to invest over $76,000/yr!!! for the 6 years prior to retirement (assuming a 7% ROI). Joe is probably an O-4 at this point and is probably making close to six figures considering BAH, COLA, CZTE/HFP, Per Diem, etc. Add them together and he's "making" almost $175,000/yr, while his buddy Ted gave that up to start a new career. Will it be worth it? If he's in the FedEx pool, possibly. If he starts at most other airlines, not likely.

Disclaimer: I'm about as far from a math major as one can possibly get, so the above example is overly simplified and leaves out what are sure to be many variables (like intangible QOL issues, for one). Let the spear chucking begin......

No spears here. Your math is pretty accurate, at least for my situation. I have a "real world" example -- a family member of mine, 'got out', however, I stayed in. The numbers you cite pretty much reflect our real world situation.

Someone earlier mentioned getting out, getting a job, then going back on extended active duty. I know a couple of guys who have done that as well. They have a seniority number, and they are collecting active duty time toward retirement. However, the reserves may not allow them to reach the magic "20" on active duty---we'll see.

Bottom line. The guy who is facing this decision is in pretty good shape no matter which course he chooses. It's great to have options.
I guess the big question is...... does the guy really want an airline job?

 

[Purpledog]

I got the dream job and life is as good as it's going to be. I would stay in for 20 if I could do it over. I loved what I was flying which isn't quite the case now. I also had a sense of purpose serving the country. It sounds hokey, and if I was on active reading this I'd say BS, but I'm sure some others feel a little empty after leaving. If you like what you're doing stay. There will be no pressure when you do get out b/c you'll have a mortgage payment for life. I was victim to the grass is greener hype and it wasn't in my opinion. As a commuter, I am gone more than I ever was on active. At least stay the 20 for the reserve retirement, probably the best decision I made. Like others have said, although we're a good bet, nothing is for sure. If Auburn Calloway had succeeded I probably wouldn't have a job. Also, after watching the discovery channel's special on the New Madrid Fault Line, who knows if MEM is going to be around when I retire.http://www.pianet.com/IssuesOfFocus/HotIssues/naturaldisaster/8-9-05.htm
Good luck, to your friend.

 

[av8trix]

What we did

My husband and I both got out at the 10 year point. It was a huge risk. We dropped papers before either one of us had a job. I thought one of us should cling to "mother air force" until the other got hired at least, but the hubby wouldn't hear of it. So glad I listened to him. We were hired at the front of the wave at our companies. We were in class while we were on terminal leave. Then, with my taste of freedom, I wanted to quit the Air Force completely, but the hubby wouldn't hear of that either. Hate to admit, he was right again. After much consideration, we both are doing the guard/reserve thing. It gives me a huge sense of security knowing I have a place to go if the unforseeable occurs. We are doing it for the tricare more than anything else. We are going to do our best to make it to 20...we'll see. I would recommend being at a unit that is close to your domicile if you can swing it.

Deuce 130, I don't know how much you like C-5s, but I'd be calling the TANG if I were you. They said they'd hire my husband if he got hired at FedEx, and he's a fighter guy. Life would be good living in Memphis and not having to commute to either job. Better yet, how about an ANC domicile and flying for the guard up there?

I feel your pain...in your shoes, I'd pursue the guard job. Believe me, when FedEx calls, your unit will be understanding. If they aren't, you are in the wrong unit! If nothing else, they'll want you to help them get in with FedEx too. You can make the same money in the guard than you can on active duty, if you are worried about providing. Best of luck with you decision, and with FedEx.

 

[AlbieF15]

I thought one of us should cling to "mother air force" until the other got hired at least, but the hubby wouldn't hear of it. So glad I listened to him. We were hired at the front of the wave at our companies. We were in class while we were on terminal leave. Then, with my taste of freedom, I wanted to quit the Air Force completely, but the hubby wouldn't hear of that either. Hate to admit, he was right again.


Dear God Woman, can we clone you? Praising your man twice in public...and a Viper driver no less!

I think the boy did well...