Stepping into the corporate world

[Tailplane]

This message is to anyone with any information on how to step into the corporate flying world. I have just recieved my commercial rating and am working on my CFI, but I am looking forward to a job flying coporate aviation. Anyone with some advice or information please email or write something on this board. Thanks.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Many went a similar route:

college
flight instructing
charter/135
corporate

make as many contacts along the way, be known as a good pilot who is flexible and willing to travel. You would be surprised how many folks interview for a GIV/GV/Global type of job and say they really dont like to be away much...duh. 10-12 day trips every once in a while are just the norm. 3-5 nights is more common, but the longer ones are there..just part of the game. If you get rated in a plane that can fly 8 or even 13 hours a leg, you are going far away! So if traveling far from the wifey and kids urks you, dont even go this path! There are very good and lucrative jobs where you will be closer all the time (Southwest/JetBlue or even fractionals)

The 4 yr degree is becoming a minimum qualification at most bigger corp jobs. Minimum hours are 2500TT for an F/O and 5000TT for a PIC (these are rough guesses..) A typical hire on may have 2-3000 hours, a type rating or two, and MOST IMPORTANTLY - an internal reccomendation. Keep in touch with friends, help them out if possible - they will return the favor someday.

Location is also a huge factor in corp flying. Dont plan on living in Bumscrew, Iowa. You will have to be near the major corp airports for sure..NY/NJ Area, Chicago, Wilmington Del., LA?

Corp flying can be very rewarding. It has its ups and downs like any job, but the top jobs offer good pay, great benefits, fun flying (if you like Intl') great equipment, and decent schedules...all my friends at major airlines work more days and work harder than me. (although a few make more money...)

All in all the road to good corp jobs may be ugly at times, but well worth it!!

good luck to ya.

 

[FL350]

Without a doubt, the most important part of getting a corporate job is who you know. I have gotten two jobs I "didn't have enough time for" but because of contacts I made months and years earlier, I was considered for and got both jobs.

Of course knowing the right people and being an a$$ hole won't help you. But, if you are able to stay in contact with people and maintain a friendship with them that is based on something more than what they have to offer you, the rest will fall into place.

 

[mainah]

Agree with the above posts to keep in touch with people you meet as they will be the key down the road. Who you know is the most important factor in corporate aviation. The company I work for did not publicly advertise the position. I only found out through a few people I already knew in the company. I'm in a similar situation as FL350, I know I'm below the mins. of what the insurance company would have liked but they hired me anyways. Another thing, not all corporate flight departments are in large cities. Granted the larger ones are but there are some excellent flight departments in cities like Bumscrew, Iowa. Just depends on what type of corporate operator you wish to fly for. You probably will be in a small flight department outside of the large cities but not always. Anyways, just stay friendly with those you meet and best of luck.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

OK let me rephrase...

yes there are corp gigs in bumscrew Iowa...

BUT, what Im getting at is that jobs (especially with single plane smaller corps) can go away without much notice. The owner retires, the son is a loser, or XYZ company buys em out and XYZ has no need for bumscrew...You have a wife, family, dog ,boat and house that depended on that great job...problem is the only other plane based on the field or nearby is a Cessna 172 - and flight instructing aint gonna pay the bills.

Life is just much easier if you have OPTIONS - and no matter how "rich" or how much they "need" an airplane, they go away -- that I know all too well!!

More Planes = More Jobs.

All Im suggesting is that if your GOAL is to make it in corp flying, position yourself where the jobs are. Its hard enough to get that ideal job, dont start in the hole.

 

[mainah]

OK let me rephrase...

yes there are corp gigs in bumscrew Iowa...

BUT, what Im getting at is that jobs (especially with single plane smaller corps) can go away without much notice. The owner retires, the son is a loser, or XYZ company buys em out and XYZ has no need for bumscrew...You have a wife, family, dog ,boat and house that depended on that great job...problem is the only other plane based on the field or nearby is a Cessna 172 - and flight instructing aint gonna pay the bills.

Life is just much easier if you have OPTIONS - and no matter how "rich" or how much they "need" an airplane, they go away -- that I know all too well!!

More Planes = More Jobs.

All Im suggesting is that if your GOAL is to make it in corp flying, position yourself where the jobs are. Its hard enough to get that ideal job, dont start in the hole.

Point taken, agreed.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

But I have to say...

It would be nice to have a high paying, stable corp gig somewhere in the sticks where one could own about 100 acres of land and build a big house and live like a king on 150K/yr....

sign me up!!

 

[banned username 2]

But I have to say...

It would be nice to have a high paying, stable corp gig somewhere in the sticks where one could own about 100 acres of land and build a big house and live like a king on 150K/yr....

sign me up!!

Sign me up too!!!!!!

 

[Tailplane]

Thanks for the info

Big thanks to everyone who has posted some advice or information about the corporate world. I know I'm still aways off from a life in corp but it sounds like it is going to be fun work. I'm almost done with college and far from getting married so I don't think I'll have any problem with moving or being away from home for extended periods of time. I love to travel so it should be fun to be on trips all over the place. What kinds of companies should I look into? Who would have flight departments that are worth flying for? I currently live near Chicago, about 2 hours away, and it was mentioned that Chicago was a good place to look. What about Charter 135 opportunities? Where would I look for them?

 

[banned username 2]

Corporate Route.

Ideally you will want to work for a Fortune 500 company (Fortune 100 is even better)(IBM, G.E., Phillip Morris, Morgan Stanley, Kodak, Merck, etc. are all examples). Typically they have multi-aircraft fleets which will offer you the best upgrade potential, scheduling flexibility, dynamic work environment and job security (relative term).

Realistically plan on instructing until you have at least 1,500 hours. Try to instruct somewhere that has a multi-engine aircraft, multi-time is pretty important when you are looking for that first post-CFI job. Get your ATP before you leave instructing, it will make you more marketable for the Charter companies.

As far as Charter opportunities, I would try to find somewhere that has turbo-props and jets. You will upgrade much faster in the turbo-prop than you will the jet, this will allow you to gain PIC turbine time faster while still getting jet experience. You will eventually upgrade in the jet and get Type Rated. Having a couple Type Ratings in your pocket when looking for Corporate work is a big plus, even if the ratings aren't in the same make or model of aircraft the Corporate Operator has. The Type Rating shows you are capable of being trained and successfully passing a Type Rating checkride.

Hope this info helps, feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions, I'd be glad to help.

Falcon Capt

 

[AA717driver]

I'm transitioning from the airlines to corporate and wouldn't have had a chance if I hadn't stayed in touch with a friend.

Question--Does my airline time make me more marketable to corporations once I get a 1000 hours in a GV(half as PIC)? Or do they just look at the time I've put in at a corporate outfit?

Thanks for the good info.TC

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I would say no, in general...

I would minimize your airline experience as much as possible and play up your GV and corp experience as best you can.

Being an airline guy still throws up a big flag to many managers, for whatever reasons. Some just trusted guys in the past who said they would stay if given an opportunity and then got burned, etc...

But coming in as a current GV guy and an EX-airline guy shoudn't hurt you....unless you are on furlough.

I think the anti-airline attitudes will slowly go away in corporate flying. The way I look at it is if the job is good enough why would a guy go back to the airlines anyway these days?? but...if its a ratty charter job or something similar - why would you stay?

I do know for a fact that many of the tp Fortune 10 flight departments will hire airline guys with good internal recommendations (past corp exp helps too) but I also know that they do REQUIRE your resignation - and contrary to belief, its not really about the 50K min to train you, its about finding a long term employee..

Good Luck to ya. I hear nothing but great things of the GV - everyone says its a real "pilots airplane" I wouldn't mind flying one myself!!!

 

[501261]

I'd also say no. Simply because in the small world of corporate, personality* is probably the biggest asset. Not that there is anything wrong with 1000's of hours of 121 time, but once you get past a certain point you're "qualified".

With your time you're probably a good, safe pilot. So you're "qualified". What's the difference between a "qualified" pilot and a hired pilot in the small world of corporate flying? Your personality! How well you get along with the other people in the flight department?

So if you ask me, 1000's of hours of 121 time makes absolutely no difference to me. Are you "qualified", if yes then go to step 2. Step 2 is how well do you interact with other people. The "qualified" person that has the best personality* will probably get the job.

* By personality I don't mean you need to be the life of the party, but able to interact and enjoy some of the same interests as the other people in the flight department and company in general.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I agree.

Personality means a lot. People will simply ask "Do you think he/she will fit in here"

Flying corporate has you spending a LOT of time together on the road on occasion...anyone can fly the plane but not anyone will "fit in"..

 

[AA717driver]

Thanks, guys. After flying with some of the old, crusty TWA Capts., I can get along with anyone!

Right now, the hurdle is getting the HR people to go back and let the flight dept. hire the people they want, rather than just looking for typed people to save a few bucks. I would be replacing one of the two people they hired without an inside recommendation. Neither one is "fitting in".

I think that validates your views completely. I do understand the concern with the furlough issue. In the past, so many companies got burned when the airlines recalled. (Even FedEx won't hire AA furloughees from what I hear.)

I think the airlines' conditions have gotten worse and corporate has gotten better, so there's only personal preference as the deciding factor.

I can't wait to drive 20 minutes to work as opposed to 4 hours(IND-STL) AND no security hassles! TC

P.S.--I'll need some bar recommendations if I go to SAV for ground school .

 

[Groundpounder]

I work part time for a corporate flight department doing things like washing the plane, revisions, ect. I'm not doing it for the money, thats for sure. I'm doing it to get my name out there. The department has been around for almost 15 years, and my boss knows everyone in the area, and both of the pilots are old timers from the local area. They know I'm looking to fly professionaly, and have been told they are going to help me out once I get all my ratings, and have been told by my boss that once I get the hours they'll try to stick me in the right seat for some trips. I actually got the job on the good word from the guy that used to do what I do, and he is now flying a G4 because of working there, and for another flight department.
So, if you can, try to find some local flight departments and offer your services. Hell, even if its for free, if you make a good impression and get your name in their rolodex it could lead to something down the road.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Please dont wash the GIV for free.

Next thing you know, they might want us to fly for free....

and my kids wouldn't appreciate that.