Steep Spiral PA-28-200R Gear Position?

[Fly_Chick]

My commercial student and I have been practicing steep spirals in the Piper Arrow, getting him ready for his checkride. My question is gear up or gear down? We glide at 79 knots, prop full forward, yet I have not been able to find an answer on gear. My chief pilot recommends gear down as you are spiraling towards landing. I did not see anything in PTS or AFH (Airplane Flying Handbook) for specific guidance on the landing gear position. Do you also enter upwind or downwind? I have been entering upwind.

 

[pilotman2105]

My commercial student and I have been practicing steep spirals in the Piper Arrow, getting him ready for his checkride. My question is gear up or gear down? We glide at 79 knots, prop full forward, yet I have not been able to find an answer on gear. My chief pilot recommends gear down as you are spiraling towards landing.

I did up gear up. Reason being less drag and more likely to be able to complete the maneuver in less altitude. Remember, this is a performance maneuver, not an emergency maneuver, thus a forced landing at the end of the steep spiral is not assumed.

However, the AFH does briefly mention at the end of the first paragraph that a steep spial "has a practical application in providing a procedure for dissipating altitudewhile remaining over a spot in conjunction for landing..." So I guess it is pretty much a toss up.

Do you also enter upwind or downwind? I have been entering upwind.

The picture in the AFH shows an upwind entry. This doesn't make quite as much sense as a downwind entry to me. I'd want to immediately know how much bank angle is going to be maximum vs. how much is going to minimum initially. Again, toss up.

 

[bobbysamd]

Steep spirals

What does the PTS say?

For what it's worth, at ERAU we taught steep spirals to our Commercial Single and CFI students in our 182 RGs gear-down.

 

[flywithi]

gear down and downwind

I took my comm. ride a couple months ago in a arrow and I did the manuever gear down. The reason being that last line mentioned in the AFH and practically the manuever would be used to get down quick through a hole in the clouds, thus maximum altitude loss was a good thing.

Also we would always enter downwind since this meant that your initial bank was your steepest. If you entered upwind you could get into a situation where to maintain a constant radius turn your bank angle exceeded the maximum allowed for the manuever during the downwind turn. Then again as already pointed out what does the PTS say?

 

[Fly_Chick]

Gear Up or Down

Thanks for the replies. I believe I will go with gear down.

 

[SMOE]

Never heard of doing them gear down in an Arrow. Always done them gear up and the prop in full low RPM (3 bladed Hartzell) otherwise there's too much drag to do the required three turns and recover by 1500 AGL. There's always time to drop the gear if it was to an emergency landing ;-)

You guys have me curious and now I'm going to have to try it for myself...

 

[flyflorida2001]

I teach my students in the Aarow with gear down. You are slow enough to avoid concern of exceeding Vle...and as for losing too much altitude...start a bit higher and it isnt an issue. Also, I enter upwind as that is what the school I teach for wants...altough I do see benefit to upwind or downwind.

 

[EDUC8-or]

The PTS doesn't say anything about landing gear. I teach gear down, because although this is a performance maneuver I look at it as more of a "emergency performance" maneuver. For my PPL students I like to pull the power over the airport to see if they can make it down. I like to see my CPL students perform the steep spiral over an airport. It can be taken down below 1500' if you are going to land. You'd be surprised to see how many guys are dumbfounded when I tell them to go around at 100' AGL with the gear horn blaring, no GUMPS, and TOTALLY committed to land. Dump the gear first thing, get a GUMP check, and you're good to go.

Another good thing about teaching this above and airport is the use of "key points" in the pattern and if your studen is abeam the touchdown point at 1000', they will have an easier time with the power off 180.

 

[unreal]

I see it as a performance maneuver geared towards emergency ops as well, but I like gear-up until I'm in a normal position to land. If I have an engine out, I'm going to keep it in a clean configuration as long as possible for the most possible options.

On the other hand, I do see what you're saying. If I have a student that tends to get hurried/flustered/dumb and completely forgets to put the gear down, then I agree that putting the gear down first would be a viable option.

 

[troy]

Gear up or down, shouldn't matter. Just be prepared to justifiy your decision to the DE. If the decent rate is excessive, climb for more altitude.