Stay Out Of The Boxes!!!

[miles otoole]

Yip, you miss the point. I'm not saying that I want to go into real estate, or that I need $400K to be happy. I am saying that even though you've never made it, $100K isn't all that you make it out to be. I make about $75K right now, and I can tell you that someone with a family of four would be hard pressed to live a good middle-class lifestyle on this kind of salary. Forget sending the kids to private schools or getting a big house. I think air line pilots deserve a lot better than that.

So now you deserve more money? Life ain't fair-It's insane your dad makes 400k/year selling real estate, especially considering his contribution to society (relative to a pilot's).
I know consultants and accountants with MBAs who make 80k a year and they complain less about their compensation than most pilots do about theirs. You have to quit looking at how much pilots used to be paid and start to accept how much you will be paid and adjust. With starting regional salaries at $22 an hour, the demand for jobs has never been higher. Their expectations are now yours. Of course, many of these young studs who now accept these jobs are smartly realizing that they either have to wait to get married to have the wife stay home with the kids or have her work to in order be satisfied with their occupation as an airline pilot.

 

[pilotyip]

Only in the flying business is a $75K/yr looked at as a starvation wage. PCL since I have never made over $100K, I find it easy to live on less money. I have no kids at home, but probably spend as much on my grandkids as I did on my kid. Private schools, they are expensive, big houses they are really expensive, and maybe expectations should be lowered to match reality. I am really content with my life; it has been an adventure, still living the dream.

 

[acaTerry]

George Bush hates regional pilots

Everybody hates regional pilots

 

[PCL_128]

and maybe expectations should be lowered to match reality.

How about we fight to get what we deserve instead of taking this crap lying down? You may have given up years ago, but many of us are still willing to walk picket lines to secure a fair wage and QOL. We don't have to lower our expectations simply because someone in management that went to Hotel Management school doesn't want to focus on running an airline instead of balancing the books on the backs of the workers.

 

[pilotyip]

PLC put your actions where your heart is; this is a pilot board you might get a lot of support. Again, your solution is to stick to management, make them pay attention to your needs, and force them to pay up if they want to keep operating. In fact, force them to resign as part of the contract and bring union friendly management. Without balanced books, you do not have paycheck, and the airline has no airplanes. It is one of that thing s you do to run a business. If you have solution, you should stop flying, come over to management, and redefine the regional airline industry. Only in the pilot business is $70K for working about 15-20 days a month considered an insult. Anyone can fly an airplane it is a universal skill, anyone with a certain level of skill and desire can do it. If you are flying for prestige, respect, recognition, or a doctors salary you may be disappointed. As UAL78 posted in another thread, no outside of this board really cares about what you make.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

All these regional pilot problems revolve around Brand Scope. Either you are part of the mainline flying or you are an independent contractor. When you are the contractor, you are subject to the lowest bidder. This is what defines the race to the bottom. Up here at mainline, we are competeing against the independent contractors taking our flying.(bigger airplanes) At the regional level you guys are competeing against other contractors for your flying. How much lower do we have to go? I can tell you, someone will be able to go much lower than Mesa.

If you guys still want a career doing this, and having a good life. You better stop taking flying from the mainline or fight to get on our list.(Brand Scope) I don't care about these new hire FO's working for sub 20k. They don't know any better, look at any of the other boards here. It's the captains at the regionals stepping into these E170/190 CRJ700/900 that are the scum of the profession.

If you guys at XJT had a brand scope, you would all be getting a nice christmas present this year, but instead you get a lump of coal.

XJ/9E are next, in the coming few months NWA pilots are going to ask them to join the list to save the scope contract. NWA flying for NWA pilots only. Yes, 700 pilots will flow down and the regional pilots will lose big time. However, you must understand this is the essential step in stopping the race to the bottom.

 

[suupah]

PLC put your actions where your heart is; this is a pilot board you might get a lot of support. Again, your solution is to stick to management, make them pay attention to your needs, and force them to pay up if they want to keep operating. In fact, force them to resign as part of the contract and bring union friendly management. Without balanced books, you do not have paycheck, and the airline has no airplanes. It is one of that thing s you do to run a business. If you have solution, you should stop flying, come over to management, and redefine the regional airline industry. Only in the pilot business is $70K for working about 15-20 days a month considered an insult. Anyone can fly an airplane it is a universal skill, anyone with a certain level of skill and desire can do it. If you are flying for prestige, respect, recognition, or a doctors salary you may be disappointed. As UAL78 posted in another thread, no outside of this board really cares about what you make.

Come on man, there are a number of reasons that we should make more. for one, you have to admit, the decisions we make and responsibilities we have are heavy and the consequences of our decisions are very critical. It is not rocket science, but you have no room for error or a "bad day".

for two, we are away from home those twenty days. We miss alot of our lives for the company.

for three, on those twenty days, you work all day.

we should be fairly compensated for this job and that means that Captains should make a comfortable living.

FO's too of course.

 

[suupah]

All these regional pilot problems revolve around Brand Scope. Either you are part of the mainline flying or you are an independent contractor. When you are the contractor, you are subject to the lowest bidder. This is what defines the race to the bottom. Up here at mainline, we are competeing against the independent contractors taking our flying.(bigger airplanes) At the regional level you guys are competeing against other contractors for your flying. How much lower do we have to go? I can tell you, someone will be able to go much lower than Mesa.

If you guys still want a career doing this, and having a good life. You better stop taking flying from the mainline or fight to get on our list.(Brand Scope) I don't care about these new hire FO's working for sub 20k. They don't know any better, look at any of the other boards here. It's the captains at the regionals stepping into these E170/190 CRJ700/900 that are the scum of the profession.

If you guys at XJT had a brand scope, you would all be getting a nice christmas present this year, but instead you get a lump of coal.

XJ/9E are next, in the coming few months NWA pilots are going to ask them to join the list to save the scope contract. NWA flying for NWA pilots only. Yes, 700 pilots will flow down and the regional pilots will lose big time. However, you must understand this is the essential step in stopping the race to the bottom.

I agree with this. it hurts to say it, but it is the truth.

 

[BlackPilot628]

All these regional pilot problems revolve around Brand Scope. Either you are part of the mainline flying or you are an independent contractor. When you are the contractor, you are subject to the lowest bidder. This is what defines the race to the bottom. Up here at mainline, we are competeing against the independent contractors taking our flying.(bigger airplanes) At the regional level you guys are competeing against other contractors for your flying. How much lower do we have to go? I can tell you, someone will be able to go much lower than Mesa.

If you guys still want a career doing this, and having a good life. You better stop taking flying from the mainline or fight to get on our list.(Brand Scope) I don't care about these new hire FO's working for sub 20k. They don't know any better, look at any of the other boards here. It's the captains at the regionals stepping into these E170/190 CRJ700/900 that are the scum of the profession.

If you guys at XJT had a brand scope, you would all be getting a nice christmas present this year, but instead you get a lump of coal.

XJ/9E are next, in the coming few months NWA pilots are going to ask them to join the list to save the scope contract. NWA flying for NWA pilots only. Yes, 700 pilots will flow down and the regional pilots will lose big time. However, you must understand this is the essential step in stopping the race to the bottom.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the major's that control these Scope Clauses? Who votes them in or out?

I don't disagree with you! Just a question.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the major's that control these Scope Clauses? Who votes them in or out?

I don't disagree with you! Just a question.

That is correct we control the scope clause. However, the regional guys will have to agree with our proposal. Since this may be decided in court, the judge may rule against brand scope because it might put undue hardship on XJ/9E. If we as a group stand as a whole we can be more persuasive.

 

[Bluestreak]

You=idiot

"All these regional pilot problems revolve around Brand Scope. Either you are part of the mainline flying or you are an independent contractor. When you are the contractor, you are subject to the lowest bidder. This is what defines the race to the bottom."

Ahhh.I see ! I thought it was those $29 Jetblue/SWA/Airtran fares.

" Up here at mainline, we are competeing against the independent contractors taking our flying.(bigger airplanes)."

Ahhh,there's your problem ! You should compete against,uhh,I dunno,uh,maybe THE COMPETITION ? While you're squawking about RJ's,your pax are flying on a discount carrier.How many "mainline" airlines had growth last year ? JetBlue,Airtran and Southwest hired quite a few of us.

"Up here at mainline "? How's the view from your lofty perch,O Mighty One ?


" At the regional level you guys are competeing against other contractors for your flying. How much lower do we have to go? I can tell you, someone will be able to go much lower than Mesa."

This maybe true,I'm afraid.Mesa killed 19 of USAir's customers and they're still flying for them.


"If you guys still want a career doing this, and having a good life. You better stop taking flying from the mainline or fight to get on our list.(Brand Scope) I don't care about these new hire FO's working for sub 20k. They don't know any better, look at any of the other boards here. It's the captains at the regionals stepping into these E170/190 CRJ700/900 that are the scum of the profession. "

You mean like Mid Atlantic,made up of furloughed MAINLINE pilots,with the ALPA stamp of approval ? And wasn't their contract the industry standard ?


"XJ/9E are next, in the coming few months NWA pilots are going to ask them to join the list to save the scope contract. NWA flying for NWA pilots only. Yes, 700 pilots will flow down and the regional pilots will lose big time. However, you must understand this is the essential step in stopping the race to the bottom."



Are these 700 flow-down guys "It's the captains at the regionals stepping into these E170/190 CRJ700/900 that are the scum of the profession" ?


You're so full of it,your eyes are brown.

 

[BlackPilot628]

That is correct we control the scope clause. However, the regional guys will have to agree with our proposal. Since this may be decided in court, the judge may rule against brand scope because it might put undue hardship on XJ/9E. If we as a group stand as a whole we can be more persuasive.

I was not aware that the regionals have a say so in the Scopes.

Let's take this into account. Before 9-11 when most of the airlines were doing quite well and life was good, there were pretty decent scopes in place.
If the Major's are in control of the scopes, then they can't be changed without the majors consent. Soooooo....
If the major pilots said, NO we're changing or ratifying the Scope, there would be nothing over a 40-50 seat airplane flying. Is this correct?