stay here @ SKYW or move to ASA

[ductleak]

General Lee

General Lee --

Thanks for the reply again. For those of you that do not like the General's responses on here, I have found, over the last year and 1/2, that he has been on key with things out there in the real world. I have read and learned from him and find his experience to be of greatest value. It is always nice to have people your areas of interests and subjet matter that you can go to and ask for their input based on their life experiences. It only makes sense for me to ask him about this type of stuff. He has "been there and done that". (make sense?)

Again -- General Lee, I see you on here a lot and thought that you were one of the best minds to inquire... Thanks again and keep your ideas coming this way. Thoughts from others always open other door in the thought processes of many people -- remember that!

Later!

 

[~~~^~~~]

What kills you is that I am RIGHT about those positions, and I have defended my opinions with LOGIC. Do you think it is right to have CR7s flying from DFW to JFK on a 4 hour flight? I don't---and it isn't my fault--it is a marketing problem. But, you will agree to it because it furthers your cause--and that is what is wrong here. We all should want Mainline to expand, and then allow DCI people to come up---not the other way around. You don't like that view, and that is what is wrong. Moving up increases your lifestyle and pay--not moving down.

General : It is not personal, I actually like you and would be glad to buy you a beer some time in, or near ATL. I just marvel at the idea that you are considered the Grand Pooh Bah of Airline Knowledge because you are a Delta pilot.

Where you and your MEC are wrong is that we should maintain a "mainline" and "DCI" structure. What you see going on in our insdustry is not a "marketing problem." It is a labor problem. brought on by your MEC's refusal to recognize that when an RJ replaces mainline service we are alter ego pilots performing alter ego flying. Your MEC started the race for the bottom when they agreed to unlimited contestants in the competition for Delta domestic flying.

You and your MEC continue to be wrong when you believe the "fix" is to cripple Delta's ability to operate the right sized aircraft, separate out the flying you don't (or didn't) want and take the jobs you want back from whoever was flying them under your previous scope agreements.

The best way to fix that problem was, and is, ALPA's own Constitution and Bylaws, in combination with the laws of our nation that allow us to form unions for the purposes of collective bargaining.

Look around the industry. Those with the most restrictive scope failed first ( US Air ). Those with the least restrictive scope ( mainly Delta, but also Airtran ) did better because management had greater flexibility. At Jet Blue and Southwest, there has never been a scope problem because the pilots stuck together and all flying is performed by seniority list pilots.

Anyway, any one with one ounce of common sense can see ALPA, at the direction of the Delta MEC, screwed the pooch on this one. For both of our sakes, I hope some rational thought replaces unjustifiable arrogance at the negotiating table.

~~~^~~~

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

I personally don't have anything against you either, but sometimes, like I said in my earlier post, it comes off that you are mad at the world and not liking your situation. I can understand that, and if someone wants to give me some praise that I do or do not deserve then let it be. I don't think he labeled me the "Grand Pooh bah" or whatever because I was a "Delta Pilot"---he probably asked my a question because I obviously spend a lot of time on this board (1700 or more posts---yikes) and he just wanted my opinion. I try to give my opinions based on truths and my own experience through out the years----and I wish everyone a good career. I don't have anything stating that I am a "know it all"-----I just give my opinion on what is going on and listen to others give theirs. Some people call it spin, I just call it what I see in the lounge or on the line. I know Delta and Dalpa aren't perfect, and it sure would be nice if they would sit down and play nice, but I personally can't control that. You could write five pages of your opinions about how Dalpa/ALPA has screwed everyone, and all I could do was agree or disagree.

As far as current operations, I personally want them to come up with a paycut solution so we can move on and compete better. But, I don't think we should give 30% etc when others do not give also. We all have a lot to lose if this thing tanks, so everyone should be a part of the "giving"---including management. Our CFO has already given 8%, and that is great. We said we would give 13.5% (9% plus the May raise), but that isn't good enough. How about everyone give 20%? Everyone. Would that be fair? I think so. But, some people don't want to be a part of that. I think most of the pilots would give 15% and the May raise of 4.5%= 19.5%. Let's see where that goes, but right now management doesn't want to negotiate--and that is what has to happen when we have a contract.

I know you don't like this postition, but our Scope protects us. We have allowed DCI to fly up to 49% of all of our flying, and I think that is pretty good. You guys have gained quite a bit since 9-11, and now that the market is coming back (in numbers, not higher fares), you will still keep those higher percentages, not go back to pre-9-11 levels. We have more RJs than any other Major, and that has helped us when we needed it. Now things are changing. The LCCs are threatening us more with newer airplanes and lower fares. We actually need larger planes to compete---giving the pax more room and allowing us more seats to spread out the costs better. A lot of our best customers don't like flying RJs on long stage lengths. Yes, our costs need to come down, but also we need to compete with the likes of Airtran and Jetblue with their newer planes and entertainment (XM radio, Live TV etc.). What do you guys want at DCI? Do you want to compete with us for the right to fly 100 seaters or 737s? We still have 1060 guys out on the street, and Comair won't even help them without them severing their Delta ties.... What exactly do you guys want with regards to scope? More CR7s are coming this year, and they are being placed on routes like JFK-DFW. That is crazy. What is our marketing department thinking? Can't they find more than 70 people who want to fly between those two large cities? It baffles me.

Well, I might have been a little harsh on you before, but you have to remember that I just give my opinions and actually enjoy this forum. If someone thinks I have some sort of special "wisdom", then great. I don't claim to be a "know it all", and I don't think all Delta pilots are "know it alls" either.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[XRMEFLYER]

it sure would be nice if they would sit down and play nice, but I personally can't control that

Hey GL, isn't that what a lot of the Comair guys are saying about their MEC and its role in the furloughed Delta people not being allowed to come over without resigning seniority numbers. Yet you insist that they are all responsible for that policy and that they are more or less blackballed from getting hired at Delta when/if that process resumes.

That policy by the way has very little to do with Comair's pilots and everything to do with Delta boardroom types looking for ways to continue to divide and conquer. They did a fine job with that one too if your views are at all representative of the other Delta pilots.

AMF

 

[79%N1]

Hey General Lee.....

Here is why your suggestion is not only rediculous, but assinine...

I make $19.02 per hour as a first year FO at ASA. A 20% pay cut for me means a whopping salary of............15.20/hour!!!!!!! WOW, thats $13,680 per year ----- BEFORE TAXES!! Or $1,140 per month. Thanks for offering to put me well below poverty/food stamp wages. I made almost $10,000 as a flight instructor with 250 hours total time. My 4 year degree, and 5,000 + hours of flight time are not worth a job that pays 14,000/year. That is rediculous! How much do you make per hour??? Is 20% going to hurt you more, or me?? Will you and your DAPLPA cronnies have to move to a CHEAPER apartment on your pay cut? How about sell your car for a cheaper one? Maybe go back to Ramen noodles and PBJ sandwiches for dinner, maybe hamburger helper for special occasions! I dont think so. This is where your rhetoric gets tiring, and makes no sense. Why should I, an underpaid FO at a company that makes a profit further reduce my salary to poverty, so you can maintain your higher standard of living? Is that really fair, General???

 

[Russ]

79
Well said but I fear lost on the General. Its one thing to share the pain when your making a hundred thou plus its quite another when its peanuts. I think its the symbolic act he is looking for, if so then it should be some very nominal amount. The little guys should not be punished because mother D can't run an airline.

 

[General Lee]

79%N1,

I know where you are at, because back in the mid 90's I made less than $1000 a month also flying a Brasilia (at a different company though). I was there too, so relax a bit. I would believe that you guys should give something, but the percentage is up to you. When I said 20% for everyone, I primarily meant at mainline. Why? Everyone is used to making their current wages, and a 20% hit would hit everyone the same. I know some of the jobs make squat, but everyone has a stake in this. If you don't think so, just wait and see what may happen IF we actually do go to Chap 11. We will get the new United Contract, and you and Comair will get Mesa's. Then you will be making around $15 or $16 bucks an hour..... I am not a negotiator and will not make recommendations, but I was throwing it out there---saying that everyone has an equal stake in protecting their jobs. I don't see management running to give some pay either. (Except the CFO giving 8%) I still think that when this is all over, we will be giving 15% plus an additional 4.5% (the May raise) which will be close to 20%. I have no clue what you guys will be doing or giving. But, I really don't see a raise in your future.....Sometimes the truth hurts, and hopefully we will all get through this with minimal loss. Good luck.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Otto Coarsen]

To once again point out the never ending inaccuracies of mesa bashers, first year FO pay in the 50-59 seat jet @ mesa is 20.47 an hour.... So though I know that wasn't your point in the argument, I must point out that Mesa's payrate (be it horrendous) is actually about buck and a half higher then the ASA pay quoted for first year FO, and NOT 15-16 bucks an hour as you pointed out...


But thanks again for spreadin the crap on the $hit sandwich

 

[ductleak]

thanks again

Guys --

Thanks again for your input here. It has made stomaching this decision easier. Staying put here at Skywest makes more sense for me right now. Pay, upgrade and heck, 5 years down the road looks a lot better for me then it would for me at ASA. It is easy to get caught up in tommorow instead of looking down the road for the future.

SWA is and has been my goal for the longest period of time. I have not been sitting on the fence at all. I have been a loyal SWA career pursuer for years now.

Thank you all again. ASA called my again today for an interview but, I made the decision to just sit tight here and wait for a possible upgrade here that could actually occur sooner than later.


Again, thanks for your input...

 

[Skull-One]

People make it sound like 91/135 turbine jobs are easy to find. I have discovered they really aren't. Am I missing something?

 

[wil]

Otto- that 1st year rate for ASA is from our contract dated 9/15/98. So, enjoy your sandwich-

General- If you want the furloughs to fly then let's kill the portfolio and get the DCI flying under the ASA/CMR umbrella. There will be enough flying to keep us all busy until the furloughs can move back to mainline. Then maybe a "Golden Ticket" for those of us who want to move up when hiring resumes?

 

[General Lee]

wil,

That would be nice, but I can't see Delta allowing too much of that. They want to get costs in line and then they will expand you and Comair. They will probably keep the others around in some shape or form so that you will not strike and cause them too much grief. I bet you will get a BOS base soon, it looks like. Here is what our VP of Marketing said in this latest expansion news--looks like a huge carrot to me:

"To support the expansion, Delta will bring 10 airplanes out of storage and offer 200 furloughed flight attendants there jobs back, said executive vice president and chief marketing officer Vicki Escarra. About 100 more airport gate and ticket agents also will be brought back from furlough or brought in from other airports, she said.

The airline is still evaluating how many of its 1,000 furloughed pilots to bring back, Escarra said. Delta is in the midst of a protracted battle to get deep wage concessions from its pilots.

Escarra also said Delta, along with other major carriers, is considering purchasing assets from US Airways -- which emerged from bankruptcy last year -- but that no decision has been made
yet.."


Hmmmm. We shall see.....

Thanks for thinking about our furloughs, though.( and, we will be talking with the interviewers prior to any hiring about who helped our furloughs out)

Bye Bye--General Lee