Squinting on the flight physical

[THT]

During the last couple of flight physicals I had before leaving the military last year, they had me look into this new computer operated machine. No drops or anything. With in about 30 seconds this machine would determine every imperfection with your eyes. I have perfect vision, and this machine said I had a slight astigmatism in one eye. Nobody's eyes are perfect, all are a little off. I was amazed how quickly this machine could tell all. Definately high tech.

But just go for it, the worst they can do is say Sorry.

Personally I think if any standard should be maintained, it should be vision. It is hard enough for a guy with perfect vision to operate under NVGs or FLIR, let alone someone who is lacking. These are also the guys who will be flying formation with you, and can kill you.

Pete

I have to agree with this. So many people are trying to beat the system. The standards are there for a reason, and it's safety of flight. I don't want to be flying form with someone who cheated his way through the tests and can't aquire my aircraft from 2000 feet for a rejoin.

 

[Big Duke Six]

THT - I highly doubt ANYONE would get to the point of doing formation work and not have glasses on if they weren't 20/20. Once you get past the first physical, getting glasses is no big deal. Only a moron would try to go through UPT with marginal vision, so your example is pretty weak.

FWIW, in my UPT class, I would guess about 40% of the guys were wearing glasses on the first day of Academics. I didn't take a survey to see who had vision waivers to pass their initial flight physical, but I do know it was very difficult to get vision waivers back then. I could imagine that 1 or 2 may have had waivers, but certainly not all 10. Yet, there they were, first day of UPT, wearing glasses. Hmmm. One of them went on to be the Distinguished Grad of the class and got an F-16.

My 2 cents - If you think about it, I think you're safer flying form with a guy wearing glasses (who you thus KNOW is seeing at least 20/20, maybe better) than a guy who, for all you know, squinted through his tests and doesn't have the nerve later to say "Hey, I think all this studying is finally getting to me, and I think I need a pair of glasses".

Get through the tests if you can, then be smart and get glasses at flight screening or UPT.

 

[sheep44]

I think that's some good advice. I know that I have to wear glasses. That's just the way it is going to be for me. Fortunately, my corrected vision is 20/20 at least and maybe a bit better. Uncorrected? Well, that's going to be a close one, but I'll just have to cross that bridge when I get there.

Thanks everyone for the replies, I really appreciate it.

 

[satpak77]

circles test

I took that once in college for some sort of sports physical and I didn't get all the circles, I told the doc it "just aint happening". I recall some floated, some did not. Or maybe vice versa

however I managed to catch footballs, make a few baskets, etc with no problems

oh yeah, I fly in real life

I don't think that test in-and-of-itself is a deal breaker, but I am not a flight surgeon nor do I sit on the FAA Medical committee. I do hold Class 1 and have for 17 years however, never had this issue come up

good luck to you

 

[Pistlpetet]

Big Duke,

Let's agree the initial Military flight physical is an Anal Process (No pun intended). The military will dis-Qualify a guy for the most obscure reasons, maybe some bad blood chemistry, maybe a past injury, maybe for being unconscious for too long at one point. Some of which probably will not cause a guy to be a bad pilot, or a flight safety risk.

What I think Myself and THT would like to imply, is that if the military is going to be so anal about certain issues, the most glaring and important asset to a pilot, his vision, should not be watered down.

Just because you had a bunch of guys sitting in your flight class with glasses, does not mean it is the best way to do business, or for that matter is right. That is just how the system has become weakened by the lowering of ALL standards, to be kinder and gentler. That is another whole other HUGE discussion.

Bottom line is that a guy has less eye issues who has 20/20. He does get junk caught between his contact, and he does not get distortion, glare, etc from looking thru numerous lenses. I know I have been in situations at night where I wish I had better vision, and I already do.

I have a lot of friends with bad vision flying, and they are great pilots. We are just trying to stand up for some principals, and understand the glaring inconsistencies in the whole process. The world is not perfect, and neither is the system.

Pete

 

[THT]

THT - I highly doubt ANYONE would get to the point of doing formation work and not have glasses on if they weren't 20/20. Once you get past the first physical, getting glasses is no big deal. Only a moron would try to go through UPT with marginal vision, so your example is pretty weak.

FWIW, in my UPT class, I would guess about 40% of the guys were wearing glasses on the first day of Academics. I didn't take a survey to see who had vision waivers to pass their initial flight physical, but I do know it was very difficult to get vision waivers back then. I could imagine that 1 or 2 may have had waivers, but certainly not all 10. Yet, there they were, first day of UPT, wearing glasses. Hmmm. One of them went on to be the Distinguished Grad of the class and got an F-16.

My 2 cents - If you think about it, I think you're safer flying form with a guy wearing glasses (who you thus KNOW is seeing at least 20/20, maybe better) than a guy who, for all you know, squinted through his tests and doesn't have the nerve later to say "Hey, I think all this studying is finally getting to me, and I think I need a pair of glasses".

Get through the tests if you can, then be smart and get glasses at flight screening or UPT.

I'm not sure what weak "example" you're talking about in my post, but I'll bet there have been people who've gone through UPT with marginal vision who got in by squinting, memorizing the color tests, etc. and never got glasses. My point is that advise on how to cheat the system should not be given out. While I'm sure there are plenty of people who are excellent pilots who don't have 20/20, the standards are established for safety and they shouldn't be cheated in order get into UPT, even if you can get glasses after you've memorized depth perception circles and squinted thorugh the eye test.

 

[Steeler Fan]

Air Force entry criteria is no worse than 20/70 distant (uncorrected), so make sure you can do that.

They also want to see that you are correctable to 20/20 distant, so bring your glasses to the physical with you.

Good luck!

 

[peepsmover]

Orthokeratology

I've heard this process works wonders, no slicing/dicing, frying, shaving, lasing, reshapes your eyes while you sleep, but isn't it a moot point? I mean I thought some services allow laser eye voodoo stuff?

I agree the 20/20 thing is a crappy discriminator given the fact some mil drivers end up with more than cheaters or in fact can go to UPT without a waiver for eyeglasses because they are Navs, etc., healthy eyes with or without glasses should be enough. I guess they simply use it as a discriminator, but I would wonder if it has been challenged in that is there some scientific basis/reason for the 20/20 rule? FYI Jabara was a AF Korean War ace, he wore eyeglasses in the cockpit.

http://www.allaboutvision.com/contacts/orthok.htm

 

[sheep44]

Thanks all for the replies.

Ortho-K would be good, but it is my understanding that using this method would be disqualifying.

 

[Big Duke Six]

Hey guys,


First, my computer has been NORDO for some time, so I apologize for the delay keeping up with this thread.

THT, here is your quote from your first post in this thread: "I don't want to be flying form with someone who cheated his way through the tests and can't aquire my aircraft from 2000 feet for a rejoin."

For the record, I agree 100% about not cheating the system. I was merely relating my experiences to you. Also, I never said anything about it being OK for someone with poor depth perception to pursue ANY type of flying career, let alone the military. I was only referring to distance or near vision corrections. They are easily fixed and many people can see better than 20/20 with glasses on.

MY point was that they did not care that half the class of "perfect" UPT cadets all of sudden needed glasses one day. They are not stupid. My guess is that they know there are ways an intelligent young officer can get through a vision test, but even themselves realize that it is (in the end) no big deal. And, apparently they were right because they have since relaxed the standards somewhat from what they were back then. Maybe at some level those guys even get extra points for adapting and overcoming. Who knows......

I'm just telling you what I saw. I am not advocating cheating (much) but I am saying that the military would be missing out on some d@mn fine pilots if they strictly enforced the 20/20 rule, and they know it. That's what I was saying when I told you about the guy in my class who ended up needing glasses, and then also ended up with an F-16 out of UPT. To top it all off, millions of people have seen him fly since then. His airplanes now are somewhat whiter, with some red and blue in there as nice accent colors.

I stand by my original (hypothetical) statement that there is no reason to fear flying formation with someone wearing glasses, and that in fact you MAY be better off since you know he's seeing 20/20 or better, as opposed to the guy who isn't wearing glasses. We're not really sure what he's seeing are we? Now, NVG's etc may be a different matter.

You can beat your chest all you want about "perfect vision" but your point is moot. The military has given up on it - so should you. There are many other attributes needed to make a successful military pilot that can't be corrected or obtained by strapping an appliance to ones face. So while yes, it is vitally important to have good vision, it is also fairly easy to produce it. They understand that now.

Rant off.