Spirit guys need your help

[critterair2]

I know their not a major, but its important for all to hear. Mgmt is trying to impose a Mesa type contract on those guys. I think this is a time in our industry that WE all pilots "take it back." Mgmt has been riding on our backs to long. USAPA, ALPA, SWAPA, etc.... It doesn't matter anymore, another bad contract will affect us ALL! NK is a small voice but the pilots are going to battle for all of us. Please do what you can to support them! Enough is enough, strike votes coming soon.

 

[MCDU]

ALPA will make it all better. Thats what some Valujet pilots think and I think they might me right. ALPA will take it back for you. ALPA has many great lawyers and great resources. Just like at Midwest Express, ALPA will give you all the needed resources to improve your career and make sure your job and pension are not given away without a vote or a fight. Think about it my dear Spirit pilots, without ALPA, Mesa would not have such a great contract.

ALPA will fight for you. Good luck Spirit. ALPA is here to help. Just ask PFT_128.

M

 

[critterair2]

Put the bitterness aside. We are all past that point now. If this "contract 9000" were to go through, how long would it be before it made it to your airline? Want some examples? Seniority based on hours flown not years in service, one yr equals 840 hrs flown. Sound good? Hurt on the job? No workmans comp, go to HDQ as a, this is what they offered, secretary or janitor. Where do I sign? Still on the fence, upgrade based on merit not seniority. By the way 5.8 million in concessions to already the lowest paid airbus drivers industry wide. IE, union busting 101, conqueor and divide, WE, all airlines, HAVE TO STICK TOGETHER. Don't think for one minute this will be held to one airline. Who's next? Airtran, Frontier. Put the bitterness aside, its time to take it back! We are in at a turning point in this industry, sit back take it from the man again or put it on the line and take it back. I made my choice!

 

[Green]

I wish them all the best. But honestly what can we do to help? The reason Mesa sucks is because >50% of Mesa pilots voted yes to a pos contract. I used to be pissed at Alpa national when they signed off on the Mesa contract. But what could DW have done? I don't think he had the ability to make Mesa pilots give a sh#t about the union and elect reps with some backbone. The ball is in their court. Only spirit pilots can decide what they are worth.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Something has to give in order for the $9 fares to survive. Try a search, MCO-BOG, only $44 one way too!

 

[critterair2]

It won't be a rosy blue there forever, don't kid yourself. All it takes is for regime to change. Good luck, that my friends is the problem, we got ours so the heck with everybody else. Thanks for showing your true BLUE colors.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Something has to give in order for the $9 fares to survive. Try a search, MCO-BOG, only $44 one way too!

That's funny. In 2001 when JetBlue started selling seats for $60, the Legacy guys said the same thing about JetBlue.

 

[MCDU]

That's funny. In 2001 when JetBlue started selling seats for $60, the Legacy guys said the same thing about JetBlue.

Indeed funny and ironic. Good point.

M

 

[Redmeat]

I don't know why guys stay at that place.

I know guys who have been there over 10 years, thru 2 hiring cycles.

Northwest, Southwest, Airtran, Brown, Fedex, and others were all hiring and they stayed at Spirit. They are qualified upwardly mobile dudes too.

I don't get it...

 

[critterair2]

Because quality of life USED to be pretty good. UP until a few yrs ago it was a country club life. Ask the guys who bypassed recalls at UAL, AA, US Air etc....guys its the same crap everywhere, you telling me UAL guys are much better off. Stop bashing others and all come together to take back what we deserve at ALL airlines. You think your exempt from this? This isn't a my airlines better than yours thread. Maybe thats whats wrong with this business, always somebody willing to do it for less. Guess we should just bend over and take in the arse, cause thats what it sounds like.

 

[relief tube]

Something has to give in order for the $9 fares to survive. Try a search, MCO-BOG, only $44 one way too!

this coming from a guy who works for the lowest yielding airline of the "majors".

Both contracts/payscales need to come up. Good luck and fight hard.

 

[Birdstrike]

Maybe thats whats wrong with this business, always somebody willing to do it for less...

I think that's called an "Ah ha!" moment.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Spirit Pilots have my support.


The Mesa and potential managment contract that Spirit managment wants is a destination sign for where we are ALL going.... if you don't like that type of destination, then change it.....

Help those that need it.... to go up.... for surely we will all get dragged down.....

Spirit Pilots.... what do you need?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Spirit Pilots have my support.


The Mesa and potential managment contract that Spirit managment wants is a destination sign for where we are ALL going.... if you don't like that type of destination, then change it.....

Help those that need it.... to go up.... for surely we will all get dragged down.....

Spirit Pilots.... what do you need?

How about a national seniority list?

I know you think they just need to participate in their meetings, turnout for votes, and wear their hats and ALPA pins...Oh and don't forget a big informational picket session with the blowup rat...

 

[Sailpilot]

Something has to give in order for the $9 fares to survive. Try a search, MCO-BOG, only $44 one way too!

Pot, meet Kettle...

He'd like to call you something?

 

[:-)]

I know their not a major, but its important for all to hear. Mgmt is trying to impose a Mesa type contract on those guys. I think this is a time in our industry that WE all pilots "take it back." Mgmt has been riding on our backs to long. USAPA, ALPA, SWAPA, etc.... It doesn't matter anymore, another bad contract will affect us ALL! NK is a small voice but the pilots are going to battle for all of us. Please do what you can to support them! Enough is enough, strike votes coming soon.

You really need to read the RLA for yourself my friend.

You say, "Mgmt is trying to impose a Mesa type contract on those guys." I say, please tell me how management could impose a contract on the pilot group.

Hey, I've got a better idea, I'll just tell you how management can impose on a union group.

Are you ready?????? Here's your answer - one side or the other MUST FIRST BE GRANTED A RELEASE. If that isn't clear enough, the only way Spirit/Indigo can change your contract under the RLA is if you GIVE them the ability to change the contract by GIVING them a release. They could ask for the release themselves, but they probably won't get one. It's too bad that the NMB will save you from the company but it won't save you from yourselves.

I applaud your call for assistance, but you really should be calling for your fellow pilots to call their MEC and tell them to stay the hedoublehockeysticks away from a release until the economic tables turn in your favor.

 

[Mike man]

You really need to read the RLA for yourself my friend.

You say, "Mgmt is trying to impose a Mesa type contract on those guys." I say, please tell me how management could impose a contract on the pilot group.

Hey, I've got a better idea, I'll just tell you how management can impose on a union group.

Are you ready?????? Here's your answer - one side or the other MUST FIRST BE GRANTED A RELEASE. If that isn't clear enough, the only way Spirit/Indigo can change your contract under the RLA is if you GIVE them the ability to change the contract by GIVING them a release. They could ask for the release themselves, but they probably won't get one. It's too bad that the NMB will save you from the company but it won't save you from yourselves.

I applaud your call for assistance, but you really should be calling for your fellow pilots to call their MEC and tell them to stay the hedoublehockeysticks away from a release until the economic tables turn in your favor.

If you could just give Ben B a call and let him know that he is wrong, we would all appreciate it!

For example, the plain language in the contract states...

To the maximum extent possible, blocks of five (5) consecutive days off in domicile. In lieu of the above, to the maximum extent possible, no less than four (4) consecutive days off in domicile, except regular lines may contain blocks of less than four (4) consecutive days off in domicile on the first three and last three days of the month. Exceptions tomultiple day-off blocks may occur with prior consultation of the Scheduling Committee Chairman.

that is now gone, lines have 1 and 2 days off between crappy trips...there is no consultation of the scheduling committee chairman (I'm on the scheduling committee).

Anyway that it one of the several things ball-less Ben B has imposed on us, even in Section 6 of contract negotiations--which changes status-quo.

Let us know how that phone call goes with Ben...and thanks for your help, keep it up.

 

[flyboycmsu]

I applaud your call for assistance, but you really should be calling for your fellow pilots to call their MEC and tell them to stay the hedoublehockeysticks away from a release until the economic tables turn in your favor.

The company has proven they will not negotiate in good faith in both good and bad economic times. Nobody wants to strike...and I don't think we will. But we need a good vote to help our bargaining position.
Also, the new NMB board will not be 'seated' for at least six months-nothing is going to happen any time soon.

 

[:-)]

The company has proven they will not negotiate in good faith in both good and bad economic times. Nobody wants to strike...and I don't think we will. But we need a good vote to help our bargaining position.
Also, the new NMB board will not be 'seated' for at least six months-nothing is going to happen any time soon.

A "good vote" will only help your bargaining position if it is credible. The sentence previous to the one quoted above says that you don't think you will strike. That attitude shows that your group is not serious.

Somewhere in the desert, your management is laughing their arses off.

 

[:-)]

If you could just give Ben B a call and let him know that he is wrong, we would all appreciate it!

For example, the plain language in the contract states...

To the maximum extent possible, blocks of five (5) consecutive days off in domicile. In lieu of the above, to the maximum extent possible, no less than four (4) consecutive days off in domicile, except regular lines may contain blocks of less than four (4) consecutive days off in domicile on the first three and last three days of the month. Exceptions tomultiple day-off blocks may occur with prior consultation of the Scheduling Committee Chairman.

that is now gone, lines have 1 and 2 days off between crappy trips...there is no consultation of the scheduling committee chairman (I'm on the scheduling committee).

Anyway that it one of the several things ball-less Ben B has imposed on us, even in Section 6 of contract negotiations--which changes status-quo.

Let us know how that phone call goes with Ben...and thanks for your help, keep it up.

Your company sux, but that's no reason to give them what they want. They want your contract GONE.

I read your "maximun extent possible" excerpt and I hate to tell you, but it's grey language. Both 5 and 4 day sentence segments include that max extent possible language. Why did you post that excerpt? It does nothing to prove your point.

 

[JoeMerchant]

How can this happen now that the Messiah is in the White House? I thought he was going to bring good things.....What is happening?

 

[flyboycmsu]

A "good vote" will only help your bargaining position if it is credible. The sentence previous to the one quoted above says that you don't think you will strike. That attitude shows that your group is not serious.

Somewhere in the desert, your management is laughing their arses off.

I think our group is serious; and there is a conceptual difference between what I 'think' the outcome will be and whatever outcome a strike vote has. I guess I should have used two different sentences.
And airline management is laughing all the way to the bank...at just about every airline in this country

 

[Mike man]

Your company sux, but that's no reason to give them what they want. They want your contract GONE.

I read your "maximun extent possible" excerpt and I hate to tell you, but it's grey language. Both 5 and 4 day sentence segments include that max extent possible language. Why did you post that excerpt? It does nothing to prove your point.

******************** you

 

[PuffDriver]

How can this happen now that the Messiah is in the White House? I thought he was going to bring good things.....What is happening?

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

 

[GogglesPisano]

How can this happen now that the Messiah is in the White House? I thought he was going to bring good things.....What is happening?

As I remember correctly the previous occupant of the WH claimed that the Almighty spoke to him.

 

[:-)]

******************** you

The best your ALPA negotiators can come up with is "the the max extent possible" and you think that telling me F U will help you?

you are a sad man.

 

[Mike man]

The best your ALPA negotiators can come up with is "the the max extent possible" and you think that telling me F U will help you?

you are a sad man.

You are correct...since I and my fellow pilots are living in the Ben Ball-less Baldanzas regime of terror I let my emotions get in the way of a balanced flightinfo "conversation". You were talking about not changing status quo, however Spirit management has changed it repeatedly over the last several months.

I think you will find that a pilot group has its hands tied as far as the RLA and management doing what ever it wants, ask the APA http://www.utwatch.org/archives/workingstiff/vol2no2_pilots.html . If we do get a release here are some of the new things management will impose on the pilot group:

Company proposal Section 2, Definitions

2P. Longevity means a period of time credited to a pilot, commencing on the DOS, for purposes of determining a pilot’s applicable rate of pay and vacation accrual. A pilot will be credited with one year or step of longevity for every 840 block hours flown, provided that any pilot on the Company’s seniority list as of the DOS will be deemed credited with longevity accumulated based on increments of 840 block hours flown for the Company prior to the DOS.

11.D.3
Upgrades from First Officer to Captain shall be based on seniority unless the Vice President of Flight Operations concludes that the First Officer is deficient as to:
1. Leadership skills
2. Flying competency; or,
3. Work reliability

Section 2.II “Regular Line” means a sequence of trips with intervening days off awarded or assigned to a regular pilot. A regular line shall not contain less than 50 block hours and not more than 95 block hours.
Section 4.B.1 The minimum number of guaranteed block hours for regular pilots for each bid month will be determined on a domicile-by-domicile basis by subtracting 15 block hours from the average line value for such bid month for each domicile; provided, however, that the minimum guarantee for regular pilots in any bid month shall not exceed 72 block hours. For example, if the average line value at a domicile is 85 block hours, the minimum guarantee for pilots at such domicile shall be 70 hours for that bid month. By way of further example, if the average line value at a domicile is 89 block hours, the minimum guarantee for regular pilots at such domicile shall be 72 block hours.

 

[boomlrd]

I got no worries, WE WILL HAVE A YES TO STRIKE VOTE! When they release us, we will walk under our terms, no management imposed contract will prevail. This management is sorely mistaken by wasting Spirit money on Ford and Harrison, we will prevail. It may take some time, but when we strike, Indigo will fire Ben B. and his cronies, then place a new management to be the "savior" and sign a new and improved industry leading contract. I think management has really lost touch with how angry we are, we will shut it down.

 

[castle bravo]

"To the maximum extent possible....."


This has to be managements favorite contract language.

 

[kwick]

Your company sux, but that's no reason to give them what they want. They want your contract GONE.

I read your "maximun extent possible" excerpt and I hate to tell you, but it's grey language. Both 5 and 4 day sentence segments include that max extent possible language. Why did you post that excerpt? It does nothing to prove your point.

Hey Mr. Regional Guy, Why don't you worry about your own company's problems?

If you got lucky enough to get hired by Spirit you might be a real airline Captain flying Airbuses in a few years.