Spins...

[minitour]

Anyone ever done any spins with full flaps?

Here was the scenario:

Slow flight at 6,500, instructor pulls a "hey watch this" and tips the plane over to 50* of bank (or so) plane stalls...I was of course not expecting this and we got all sorts of un-coordinated...I felt something comin....not sure if it was a spin or my vomit, but I managed to recover from the slow flight situation and get us back to cruise IAS...brought the flaps up, etc...

So my question is...in a 152, can you/should you do spins with full flaps? How does that F*ck with the aerodynamics of a spin?

-mini

PS
Yay for accellerated stalls...

 

[User546]

When I was going thru my CFI training in a newer 172, I was repeatedly told that doing a spin with full flaps greatly decreased your chances of recovery from a spin.

Its too late at night for me to sit here and ponder the aerodynamic validity of this or not, but I'm sure someone else will confirm or deny the above statement.

One thing for sure, whether or not its safe to do or not, upon recovery from the spin I'd knocked the fire out of that instructor and ask him if he wants for me to show him the door.

 

[minitour]

When I was going thru my CFI training in a newer 172, I was repeatedly told that doing a spin with full flaps greatly decreased your chances of recovery from a spin.

Its too late at night for me to sit here and ponder the aerodynamic validity of this or not, but I'm sure someone else will confirm or deny the above statement.

One thing for sure, whether or not its safe to do or not, upon recovery from the spin I'd knocked the fire out of that instructor and ask him if he wants for me to show him the door.

I kind of thought that. With the increased AOA with the flaps down, I would imagine you could get pretty screwed pretty quickly.

As far as the instructor...he's been hot-doggin it lately. "When you do a steep spiral, turn into a 45* bank turn like this *snap*"

Oh well...only thing that pissed me off was I had it nailed! 35 indicated (had no idea it wouldn't stall at that speed...wow), stall horn blaring away, right rudder almost all the way in, plastered to the back of the seat just haaaaaaangin on the prop....bass turd...oh well...

Thanks for the info and if anyone has anything to add on the aerodynamics, do tell! I know someone on here has to have info...

-mini

 

[Uncle Sparky]

Welp, I've never heard of it before but I have been wrong once or twice before......at any rate, I'm going with:

(C) an extremely bad idea

Let's see here.....
1. power to idle
2. opposite rudder to stop the rotation
3. forward pressure to break the stall
4. recover with light back pressure to avoid an accelerated stall
I'm guessing that, somewhere between number three and four, the little white needle is going to swing past the little white arc......

 

[User546]

As far as the instructor...he's been hot-doggin it lately.

I'd possibly consider finding another/better flight instructor. Sounds like this guy is just an incident waiting to happen. May be "innocent" now, but he'll keep pushing that envelope just a little more each time, until one day he says those famous last words of pilots: "hey, watch this..."

 

[Mr. Cole]

Mini,

I'll have to go back and look at a few references, but just about every source I've read mentions getting the flaps up, usually in the action of ailerons to neutral. May memory may be spotty, but the reasons I think flaps are bad are:

1) They tend to be flatten the spin.

2) The disrupted flow coming off the flaps may negatively impact the rudder effectiveness.

3) Risk of damaging the flaps during the pullout.

Dave

 

[rumpletumbler]

I'm bothered a bit because the a/c I fly (CH2T) isn't approved for "intentional" spins. I'd like to spin it because I teach in it so I can see what its like before a student does it to me. However, I'm breaking the regs if I do and that isn't an option. Sucks...

 

[rumpletumbler]

As an answer to the op (sorry I strayed).... Check the AFM for the answer. I left flying for 20 years because an (expletive deleted) CFI wanted to spin the terrorhawk with full flaps to sign me off for my spin endorsement. It specifically stated in the flight manual to NEVER do that. I wouldn't and was labeled as a source of amusement at the flight school. This guy was always hot dogging and taught nothing..he was bored I guess. Anyway he is still alive...flying a Lear 60 I think. He was a good pilot but a horrible teacher. I didn't trust him and began to think everyone in aviation was like him. Thank God I wised up and got back into avaition. There will always be these folks out there. Stay FAR away from them. They are time builders and don't give a rats behind about teaching. They will hurt and distort your view of aviation if you hang with them long enough. Get away......

 

[mayday1]

2) The disrupted flow coming off the flaps may negatively impact the rudder effectiveness.

this is what I understood the issue to be.

 

[avbug]

Anyway he is still alive...flying a Lear 60 I think. He was a good pilot but...

Apparently not.

Else he wouldn't have asked you what you knew not to do, would he?