Spin Training

[Ball Turret]

Trying to win a bet here...

Is it illegal to do spins with a student that is not in a 141 school and is not a CFI applicant?

Thanks in advance,
BT

 

[Steveair]

Yes. You can provide spin training to anyone at any time. They can be a student pilot, private, commercial... even a CFI. The FAA has absolutely no quams about people learning how to recognize and get out of one of the most frequent aviation accidents.Who won the bet?

 

[JB74]

Agreed.

 

[LivingToFly]

This could be what one of you is thinking of...

§ 91.307 Parachutes and parachuting.

(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds -
(1) A bank of 60° relative to the horizon; or
(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30° relative to the horizon.

(d) Paragraph (c) of this section does not apply to -
(1) Flight tests for pilot certification or rating; or
(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by -
(i) A certificated flight instructor; or
(ii) An airline transport pilot instructing in accordance with § 61.67 of this chapter.

I don't believe most flight schools have parachutes on hand (none that I have been to). If you don't have a parachute, this FAR could be pertinent...it depends on your interpretation I think. If you are training a private pilot applicant on spins, does that fulfill the bolded part above? (doesn't sound like it does cause it's not REQUIRED, but does anyone KNOW??) If not, it is illegal unless you have parachutes. If you do have parachutes, I would agree that you can do as many spins as you want.

 

[Steveair]

§ 91.307 Parachutes and parachuting.

(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds

So my question is can you take two rated, current pilots and define them both as crewmembers?

 

[USMCmech]

§ 91.307 Parachutes and parachuting.

(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds -
(1) A bank of 60° relative to the horizon; or
(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30° relative to the horizon.

(d) Paragraph (c) of this section does not apply to -
(1) Flight tests for pilot certification or rating; or
(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by -
(i) A certificated flight instructor

A spin is the only areobatic manuver that dosen't require a chute.

You can demonstrate them to any student, or do them just for fun.

 

[nosehair]

If you are training a private pilot applicant on spins, does that fulfill the bolded part above? (doesn't sound like it does cause it's not REQUIRED, but does anyone KNOW??)

Stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and spin recovery techniques is required knowledge training for Recreational, Private, and Commercial Pilot Certification. While it is not required to be demonstrated on a Practical Test, the practical application of this knowledge training is considered to be applicable to any pilot certification training. No FAA Inspector is going to try to enforce the concept that the regulation ONLY applies to CFI training.

That would be teaching only to the Practical Test, and we don't do that, do we?

 

[Steveair]

A spin is the only areobatic manuver that dosen't require a chute.

You can demonstrate them to any student, or do them just for fun.

I agree with you but you bolded the part about REQUIRED FOR A CERTIFICATE OR RATING. Doing them for fun is not doing it for a certificate or rating...

 

[mayday1]

I agree with you but you bolded the part about REQUIRED FOR A CERTIFICATE OR RATING. Doing them for fun is not doing it for a certificate or rating...

i had this very question asked of me on my CFI oral... in discussing spins, i had volunteered info that a previous CFI had shown me spins when I was a private.. the examiner proceeded to tell me that was illegal and I (and the CFI) had violated a reg. He didn't "care" so much, other than that he was trying to let me know not to do that with my students.

 

[Ralgha]

i had this very question asked of me on my CFI oral... in discussing spins, i had volunteered info that a previous CFI had shown me spins when I was a private.. the examiner proceeded to tell me that was illegal and I (and the CFI) had violated a reg. He didn't "care" so much, other than that he was trying to let me know not to do that with my students.

When you were a private pilot, you were planning to become a CFI. A CFI is required to perform spins. Therefore it was not illegal. It doesn't say when those spins have to be done.