Speculation on why NJA didn't make an NBAA announcement

[CE750Driver]

Mid and Super Mid announcement by Thanksgiving.

CL300 is in there.

That is all.

 

[Pervis]

Bent, I was fortunate to avoid that certified letter, so all I can base my memory on is what I've heard and hear in recurrent and on the road. It seems your sources have far more info than those of us still employed by Netjets though.

Jack, yes I meant the election. Regardless of political affiliation, perception today is one of extreme uncertainty, and a simple change may well unlock the cash many corporations and individuals are holding on to.

 

[Jack Campbell]

Bent, I was fortunate to avoid that certified letter, so all I can base my memory on is what I've heard and hear in recurrent and on the road. It seems your sources have far more info than those of us still employed by Netjets though.

Jack, yes I meant the election. Regardless of political affiliation, perception today is one of extreme uncertainty, and a simple change may well unlock the cash many corporations and individuals are holding on to.

Pervis, I'm glad you didn't get furloughed. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. As for the election, I can see the economy picking up only if Obama is made a 1 term president and the healthcare law is repealed. Maybe companies will hire then. Those 2 things are a big IF a year out of the election.

 

[imacdog]

Bent, I was fortunate to avoid that certified letter, so all I can base my memory on is what I've heard and hear in recurrent and on the road. It seems your sources have far more info than those of us still employed by Netjets though.

Jack, yes I meant the election. Regardless of political affiliation, perception today is one of extreme uncertainty, and a simple change may well unlock the cash many corporations and individuals are holding on to.

All of the information we have has been given to us by the union.

 

[BentOver]

Bent, I was fortunate to avoid that certified letter, so all I can base my memory on is what I've heard and hear in recurrent and on the road. It seems your sources have far more info than those of us still employed by Netjets though.

Jack, yes I meant the election. Regardless of political affiliation, perception today is one of extreme uncertainty, and a simple change may well unlock the cash many corporations and individuals are holding on to.

No problem, just wanted it known that we were indeed given "expected recall dates" before the furlough. Most were within a 2.5-4 year period... Now it appears the BEST we wil be able to do is a 3.5-5.5 year recall. Unfortunately that plan is dependant on certain attrition rates and permanent recall bypasses.

So although things may hopefully look up in the future. NJA still has a long way to go before gaining the trust of many. (business wise). I will never trust management,(5th company in 11 years kinda thing).

On the other hand, I've been involved in a furlough (9/11 induced) that seemed to have no hope, only to be recalled almost immediately one glorious afternoon out of no where. So I also won't be completely shocked if sometime next year or 2013 if things really ramp up.

 

[Pervis]

I hear ya Bent. I'm at that age where I don't think I could deal with starting over again, although I wouldn't be the first to do so. And I sincerely hope my optimism pans out for all concened, whichever company we work for.

 

[Jack Campbell]

Mid and Super Mid announcement by Thanksgiving.

CL300 is in there.

That is all.

Source?

 

[squonk]

Unfortunatley, just like expected recall dates, I think business just isn't working out as well as they would like..

Beyond the initial excitement of some positive recall estimates. The truth still remains that they simply pushed recall back more than a year from expected in January 2010.

Especially in Europe, very astute Bent. The international winds are blowing...will Netjets blow with them?

 

[CE750Driver]

Source?

Do you really think I'm dumb enough to post that?

 

[mtnrunner]

Net new on the ramp and crewed...

At the end of the day the only number that matters to pilots is net new whole airframes on the ramp and fully crewed.

By the end of 2011 NetJets will have lost about 150 aircraft from its fleet since 2009, not counting EJM which has added management aircraft. Sadly today NetJets still has roughly 75 more airplanes than it needs based on its existing customer base. Finally, NetJets appears to be losing at least one airplane worth of customers each month ... yes each and every month.

This share owner and aircraft data is all public and easily accessible. Most fractional, management, brokerage, and OEM companies track the data weekly/monthly. Industry analysts such as UBS package the data as well. These analysts must do so in order to evaluate and rate public companies in the supply-chain and EOM's.

The cold hard facts are out there. The only debate is whether the shrink [wrap] plan is due to lackluster management, driven by Berkshire's ownership, or both (ownership installs lackluster management to ensure shrinkage and containment.)

Clearly with Dichter's departure among many others and the catering, fuel, hotel guy in charge of sales, marketing, and service - sales are not the priority. I have heard too many significant customer jokes about the attorney, so I won't even bother with that one.

At the end of the day making faux OEM deals for purchase pricing and options doesn't get it done. Trade-ins can be a method of disposing of older aircraft in a favorable way to a company's balance-sheet for financial reporting purposes; at least temporarily. But for pilots it's all about sales and execution. These are faux new deals because nobody (including OEM's) has confidence in sales ... execution (operations) due to a great pilot force is top notch and the best thing going. If you were an OEM would you invest and partner with a Santulli or the attorney? OEM's and parent companies had great confidence Santulli would deliver based on the OEM's risk and he did for decades ... now they should bet on the attorney and fuel guy? Come on ... too many know better.

If sales were the priority it should have [truly] been team Dichter if it couldn't have been team Santulli. Lets all be open and honest about that.

For the shareholders leadership should install the best management team. That management team must deliver (to plan) or be replaced. Yet I suspect the byproducts of a lackluster management team are already in motion... and threats of order cancellation, layoff's, and furloughs are inevitable in search for concessions. If a management team can't deliver sales... maybe they can deliver concessions.

All the facts are there, it's just a matter of objectively evaluating them and confronting the reality. If I'm not mistaken many pilots at NetJets thought the company ownership and management would do the right thing in 2004. Then they were incensed afterwards. Enter Sokol in 2009 and now... who exactly?

All just one more opinion for pile.

 

[Jack Campbell]

Do you really think I'm dumb enough to post that?

I don't know how dumb you are. But seriously, without a source its just more FI nonsense. 300's would look great in NJ colors, though...

 

[fischman]

So would a H4000. I wonder how you guys think we are going to pay for 300's?

I heard that Hawker has some 4000's that need to be sold. Bombardier has a backlog of orders. Guess what that does? Drives the price of the 4000 down.


I have spoken.

 

[CA1900]

Might not be a bad thing. They've certainly had plenty of time to shake the bugs out! :laugh:

 

[rajflyboy]

So would a H4000. I wonder how you guys think we are going to pay for 300's?

I heard that Hawker has some 4000's that need to be sold. Bombardier has a backlog of orders. Guess what that does? Drives the price of the 4000 down.


I have spoken.

"Mr Moisture" loves this type of thinking.

But I think Bombardiar is the shizzle.

 

[charley varrick]

At the end of the day the only number that matters to pilots is net new whole airframes on the ramp and fully crewed.

By the end of 2011 NetJets will have lost about 150 aircraft from its fleet since 2009, not counting EJM which has added management aircraft. Sadly today NetJets still has roughly 75 more airplanes than it needs based on its existing customer base. Finally, NetJets appears to be losing at least one airplane worth of customers each month ... yes each and every month.

This share owner and aircraft data is all public and easily accessible. Most fractional, management, brokerage, and OEM companies track the data weekly/monthly. Industry analysts such as UBS package the data as well. These analysts must do so in order to evaluate and rate public companies in the supply-chain and EOM's.

The cold hard facts are out there. The only debate is whether the shrink [wrap] plan is due to lackluster management, driven by Berkshire's ownership, or both (ownership installs lackluster management to ensure shrinkage and containment.)

Clearly with Dichter's departure among many others and the catering, fuel, hotel guy in charge of sales, marketing, and service - sales are not the priority. I have heard too many significant customer jokes about the attorney, so I won't even bother with that one.

At the end of the day making faux OEM deals for purchase pricing and options doesn't get it done. Trade-ins can be a method of disposing of older aircraft in a favorable way to a company's balance-sheet for financial reporting purposes; at least temporarily. But for pilots it's all about sales and execution. These are faux new deals because nobody (including OEM's) has confidence in sales ... execution (operations) due to a great pilot force is top notch and the best thing going. If you were an OEM would you invest and partner with a Santulli or the attorney? OEM's and parent companies had great confidence Santulli would deliver based on the OEM's risk and he did for decades ... now they should bet on the attorney and fuel guy? Come on ... too many know better.

If sales were the priority it should have [truly] been team Dichter if it couldn't have been team Santulli. Lets all be open and honest about that.

For the shareholders leadership should install the best management team. That management team must deliver (to plan) or be replaced. Yet I suspect the byproducts of a lackluster management team are already in motion... and threats of order cancellation, layoff's, and furloughs are inevitable in search for concessions. If a management team can't deliver sales... maybe they can deliver concessions.

All the facts are there, it's just a matter of objectively evaluating them and confronting the reality. If I'm not mistaken many pilots at NetJets thought the company ownership and management would do the right thing in 2004. Then they were incensed afterwards. Enter Sokol in 2009 and now... who exactly?

All just one more opinion for pile.

Sad to say, I think you're right on every count. The fact that the lawyer hasn't been replaced yet speaks volumes. I think WB has washed his hands of NJA.

 

[fischman]

"Mr Moisture" loves this type of thinking.

But I think Bombardiar is the shizzle.

Too bad.

I have spoken.

 

[gret]

Sad to say, I think you're right on every count. The fact that the lawyer hasn't been replaced yet speaks volumes. I think WB has washed his hands of NJA.

Agree on all counts.

 

[rajflyboy]

Too bad.

I have spoken.

I didn't know you were buddies with Mr Moisture? Explain?

 

[gunfyter]

Agree on all counts.

We are just waiting to see what happens with Herman Cain ... we get bought by Goldman's and He will be offered Chairmanship of Netjets if he does not get the nomination for President ...

He will then turn around the business like he did for GodFather's Pizza :laugh: We then go to a 999 ship fleet.

If he does get nominated and wins ... we still go to 999 fleet... due to the coming increased tax cuts for the rich.

Just put in $50 Million dollars for the price of a new Gulfstream and see how much money the owners will save on new Jet purchases! Actually you have to put in $50,000 because the calculator can't handle millions... then multiply by 1000. You save $5 Million on a G-V.

http://www.999calculator.net/#.Tp5BF7sTQms.facebook

 

[X-rated]

Just put in $50 Million dollars for the price of a new Gulfstream and see how much money the owners will save on new Jet purchases! Actually you have to put in $50,000 because the calculator can't handle millions... then multiply by 1000. You save $5 Million on a G-V.

http://www.999calculator.net/#.Tp5BF7sTQms.facebook

A small percentage who are not able to use the depreciation would be better off, but I can't agree that eliminating accelerated depreciation would be good for business jet sales in general.