Sovereign vs G200 vs Challenger 300 vs G150

[jonjuan]

Baggage volume on my G200 is 125 cu. ft, 1980 lbs max. Maybe the interior can be customized to add baggage space.

The 300 and Galaxy 200 are galaxies apart. When you start to peel the onion, which GVFlyer sometimes doesn't like to do, the 6'3" height of the G200 is from a dropped aisle which slopes up toward the aft. A dropped aisle in a $20MM aircraft??? The LRC in the 300 is .78, not .75. It's wing is much more efficient than that of the G200. A balanced field length difference of 1,270 feet (that's 20%). Landing distance difference of 610 feet (20%). Direct to 43,000 at MTOW in the 300 versus a step climb-ouch. Boots on a wing? The baggage? External on the G200. Accessible in flight on the 300.
Add all of that to an expected residual value difference of anywhere between 15 and 20% higher for the 300 after 6 years and the difference is VERY easy. GD ought to be embarrassed by their very ugly step-baby.

 

[NJAFracPilot]

The Citation X costs over $20 million and has a step-down aisle.

Our crews like the G200. It'll fly legs my Falcon 2000 won't.

The CL300 will not go directly to FL430 at gross and LRC is M.75 not M.78.








`

 

[ghostrider64]

BTW the 200 cruises easily between .80-.82

 

[LJ45]

what about the dated avionics in the 200? Can you carry any payload with full fuel yet in the 200? What about the flap slat failure issues?

 

[SkyGirl]

Add all of that to an expected residual value difference of anywhere between 15 and 20% higher for the 300 after 6 years and the difference is VERY easy.

Who told you that? A salesman? I guess somebody's got to believe them.



_SkyGirL_

 

[FraxJockey]

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The CL300 will not go directly to FL430 at gross and LRC is M.75 not M.78.

`

According to the QRH it can go to F430 at MTGW up to ISA+10. Been there done that MANY times.

According to the Cruise Flight Manual LRC @ ISA @38000# & F430 yields .797Mach.

 

[GEXDriver]

The 300 and Galaxy 200 are galaxies apart.

I agree, the famed Bombardier support we've enjoyed on our Global would be enough to keep me away from a Challenger CL300.

 

[SeaSpray]

According to the QRH it can go to F430 at MTGW up to ISA+10. Been there done that MANY times.

You've been directly to FL430 in a 39,000 pound Challenger 300 at ISA +10?

Bull!

SS

 

[FraxJockey]

You've been directly to FL430 in a 39,000 pound Challenger 300 at ISA +10?

Bull!

SS

I've been to F430 from a MTGW takeoff. I didn't say it was ISA+10. But it can and WILL do it. But heck I only flew it 2 years and have over 1000hrs. on it....what do I know. Plus the only way it would weigh 39K at F430 is if it was teleported there seeing how the MGTOW is 39K.

Frax

 

[400A]

Who told you that? A salesman? I guess somebody's got to believe them.



_SkyGirL_

Salesman does not have to tell you that. A quick search of the internet will show you that.

One website shows 0f 145 G-200's, 9 are for sale. Of 122 CL-300's 0 were for sale. I did however find one aircraft available from toy store. I am sure those numbers are not exact, but is a fair reflection.

I have friends flying both aircraft. The friend flying the 300 loves it, while the one flying the G-200 has his tech rep on speed dial.

 

[GVFlyer]

You've been directly to FL430 in a 39,000 pound Challenger 300 at ISA +10?

Bull!

SS

Good call, SeaSpray! Even if that is in FraxJockey’s QRH, Bombardier has always been wildly optimistic about cruise data.

Take-off and landing data is the only FAA certificated data in the Aircraft Flight Manual. Cruise data need only be representative of a “test article in the developmental test program”. Bombardier is notorious for collecting this data in uncompleted “green” aircraft without interiors.

As a matter of fact, when Gulfstream leased a Global Express for flight test and competitive analysis we found the Global cruise manual overstated actual range by as much as 11%!

I always wanted to run an ad in B&CA or AIN that was simply two blank pages facing each other. On the bottom of one it would say, “Promises Bombardier has kept”. On the bottom of the facing blank page it would state, “Promises Gulfstream has broken”.

In any event, Gulfstream Sales Engineering / Technical Marketing and Fall 2006 Conklin & deDecker agree with you that a Challenger CL300 taking off at it’s 39,000 lb MGTOW (as all initial climb data is stated) at SL on a Standard Day is only going to make it to FL410.

Here’s the Bombardier spec sheet that states the CL300’s initial cruise altitude at MGTOW is FL410.

http://www.spal.com.hk/fact_book/challenger_300_factsheet.pdf



GV

 

[FraxJockey]

Just the facts

I am just stating what I have seen with my own two eyes. It may have been at ISA or Isa-5 but it was at MGTOW and it was F430. It WILL do F410 at any temp (done it at ISA+15) @Mgtow. Regardless of how the OTHER Bombardier products perform, the CL30 meets and most of the time exceeds the book numbers, just ask any CL30 pilot. Regardless of what altitude you go to, the short field performance numbers and high, hot, and heavy numbers are among the best for any aircraft in its class.

 

[fatburger]

I'm going with frax's opinion. Seeing it rather than reading it decide it for me. Proof is in the pudding.

-fatburger-

 

[jonjuan]

Good call, SeaSpray! Even if that is in FraxJockey’s QRH, Bombardier has always been wildly optimistic about cruise data.

Take-off and landing data is the only FAA certificated data in the Aircraft Flight Manual. Cruise data need only be representative of a “test article in the developmental test program”. Bombardier is notorious for collecting this data in uncompleted “green” aircraft without interiors.

As a matter of fact, when Gulfstream leased a Global Express for flight test and competitive analysis we found the Global cruise manual overstated actual range by as much as 11%!

I always wanted to run an ad in B&CA or AIN that was simply two blank pages facing each other. On the bottom of one it would say, “Promises Bombardier has kept”. On the bottom of the facing blank page it would state, “Promises Gulfstream has broken”.

In any event, Gulfstream Sales Engineering / Technical Marketing and Fall 2006 Conklin & deDecker agree with you that a Challenger CL300 taking off at it’s 39,000 lb MGTOW (as all initial climb data is stated) at SL on a Standard Day is only going to make it to FL410.

Here’s the Bombardier spec sheet that states the CL300’s initial cruise altitude at MGTOW is FL410.

http://www.spal.com.hk/fact_book/challenger_300_factsheet.pdf



GV

GV-We trust you on the Global, however, that's not what we're talking about here. The 300's performance, however, is better than advertised. LRC is .78, not .75. I'd love to hear about the Gulfstream G200 test pilots report of their full evaluation of the CL300. I am sure you'd hear a "holy sh1t!" or two. Your AIN ad would start to get filled on both pages. Your defending the performance of the G200 is a bit amusing. Don't worry, however, she's not a Gulfstream.

 

[jonjuan]

I have friends flying both aircraft. The friend flying the 300 loves it, while the one flying the G-200 has his tech rep on speed dial.

Not true. According to GV, Gulfstream keeps its promises.