Southwest Wannabe...

[4day]

Airtran Flica letter just came out. All Airtran pilots will get 737 type ratings as they transition. Pilots already over will go for type ratings January 2015.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Flat answer to the question NO. Block hours will be reduced as the fleet shrinks to 650ish airplanes with no change in ASM capacity and the schedule is aggressively optimized. Much higher odds of a furlough than hiring.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Flat answer to the question NO. Block hours will be reduced as the fleet shrinks to 650ish airplanes with no change in ASM capacity and the schedule is aggressively optimized. Much higher odds of a furlough than hiring.

Dude, not with the "furlough" crap again. If you really believe this, why don't you take my bet? It's a win-win for you. Chickensh1t? Is that it?

Bubba

 

[SIG600]

If a lot of people leave, those "buy your 737 type rating" places are gonna LUV it. Too bad that still happens. It's a shame, most airlines pay for newhire initial training, including any type ratings needed. Maybe that policy will change someday. Hmmmm.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Last I checked DAL won't pay lodging or much else to new hires, glass houses... throwing stones?

 

[Wesb737fo]

There will be alot more than that.

and......my avatar looks better than yours. You should upgrade.

Nice butt..... You must work out a lot.

 

[General Lee]

Last I checked DAL won't pay lodging or much else to new hires, glass houses... throwing stones?

Uhhhhh, I think the first two weeks are paid for lodging wise, you get a pay check every two weeks, and if you are doing sims in other cities (ATL sims full), then you get full per diem and hotel paid for. Why is that significant? I believe AT 717 sims (owned by Boeing now?) are being moved to MIA, and plenty of newhires will be going to the 88 717s coming. Sound good yet? Newhire pay now is $66 an hour I think according to APC, it will go to $71 an hour a year from this upcoming January 1st, and you don't have to pay for a type.

What is SWA newhire pay? Sorry, no newhires over there unless pilots bail for the legacies. Try to compare Sig. You actually really can't debate. You lose.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[scoreboardII]

Anyone think Southwest will need to hire within the next 5 years?

crjdude

No.



While I don't think a furlough is probable, I'm sure that will be used as a stick during section six..

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Dude, not with the "furlough" crap again. If you really believe this, why don't you take my bet? It's a win-win for you. Chickensh1t? Is that it?

Bubba

I won't take your bet because I think a furlough is more probable than hiring but not a certainty. If we end up 300 pilots overstaffed we probably won't furlough. If we end up 600 pilots overstaffed we probably will. I imagine they will use this as leverage either during sec 6 or to try and get contract concessions after sec 6.

 

[scoreboardII]

I won't take your bet because I think a furlough is more probable than hiring but not a certainty. If we end up 300 pilots overstaffed we probably won't furlough. If we end up 600 pilots overstaffed we probably will. I imagine they will use this as leverage either during sec 6 or to try and get contract concessions after sec 6.

600 over staffed, still no furlough. We are at that level now with no furlough.

When we hit 1000 of us sitting around, as GK hems and haws about waiting to buy the MAX instead of leasing older 737's, then we might get close to talking selective reduction in guarantee to keep the peace. Say 55-65hr min. If not, then furlough. I suspect nothing till everyone is at min guarantee year-round and getting the little green bar pay. GK must show he tried to make a deal with the pilots who wouldn't help out, before he pulls the plug. And once pulled, is always on his shoulders.

 

[General Lee]

600 over staffed, still no furlough. We are at that level now with no furlough.

When we hit 1000 of us sitting around, as GK hems and haws about waiting to buy the MAX instead of leasing older 737's, then we might get close to talking selective reduction in guarantee to keep the peace. Say 55-65hr min. If not, then furlough. I suspect nothing till everyone is at min guarantee year-round and getting the little green bar pay. GK must show he tried to make a deal with the pilots who wouldn't help out, before he pulls the plug. And once pulled, is always on his shoulders.

That doesn't sound fun. On the flip side, all 3 legacies will be retiring about 15,000 pilots total over the next decade. That means rapid movement upward if you get on within the first couple of years of major hiring. There is a one year seat hold on the initial plane you are awarded at DL, and then you are free to bid bigger, or stay on equipment and get senior. Options are good, and I believe many at certain LCCs will be looking at all 3 legacies for something different with less stagnation. Good luck!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Bake]

I don't get you guys talking furlough etc. I said we are hiring 120 next year.

 

[SWA Bubba]

That doesn't sound fun. On the flip side, all 3 legacies will be retiring about 15,000 pilots total over the next decade. That means rapid movement upward if you get on within the first couple of years of major hiring. There is a one year seat hold on the initial plane you are awarded at DL, and then you are free to bid bigger, or stay on equipment and get senior. Options are good, and I believe many at certain LCCs will be looking at all 3 legacies for something different with less stagnation. Good luck!


Bye Bye---General Lee

Whew! Thank God we have the village idiot to tell us what might be good or bad!

I'm glad Delta "will be hiring soon." Overall, it's a fine company to work for, with one small drawback--there's a slim chance that you might actually have to fly a pairing with General Lee. It's annoying enough on this board, but can you imagine listening to his droning babble nonstop for hours at a time?

Good luck, someday Delta new hires!

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

I won't take your bet because I think a furlough is more probable than hiring but not a certainty. If we end up 300 pilots overstaffed we probably won't furlough. If we end up 600 pilots overstaffed we probably will. I imagine they will use this as leverage either during sec 6 or to try and get contract concessions after sec 6.

Your depressing life must really suck. And I have to add, thank God that YOU'RE not on any negotiating committee!

You always seem pretty certain, and your every freakin' post insists, that Southwest is gonna furlough at "any instant." Then you always have some sort of stupid math that somehow "proves it." Personally, I say you're full of it, so why don't you put up or shut up. Like I said, the bet is a win-win for you. If we furlough like -you- swear will happen, it's money in your pocket. If we hire first like -I- say, then the money you lose in the bet buys you a great deal of peace of mind, not to mention and more seniority on the list. What have you possibly got to lose?

Hell, I'll offer the same bet to anyone on the board: $1,000 that Southwest hires pilots off the street before it furloughs. How about YOU, General Lee? You've got a big mouth--you want a piece of that action?

Bubba

 

[scoreboardII]

All airlines have hired right up to the day they furloughed.

Hiring 1 or 100 next year won't surprise me, and in the overall scheme, not even a blip, it's the 2015-2020 timeframe I'm watching.

 

[Ty Webb]

Scoreboard-

A year ago, I would have thought you were crazy. After becoming more familiarized with the operation, I think you're exactly right, and so do a lot of others. There are too many people doing too little work for too much money . . . too much sense of entitlement, and too little desire to make things happen on-time.

I spoke with a newly-transitioned CSA (Gate Agent) a few weeks ago, who said, "I can't do anything anymore, except book, re-book, and check bags. If I do anything else, or try to help out, another employee will 'write me up' or file a grievance (for helping!). . . . and now they're paying me $27.00/hr, which is crazy for what I'm doing".

AirTran used to pay these folks about half that much, and they used to do the work of a Gate Agent, an Ops Agent, and, at some smaller stations, they also worked the ramp! These people, many of whom had been here for over a decade, were well-trained, and turned in impressive on-time performace.

Once they transition, they are restricted to doing a fraction of what they were trained to do, and paid twice as much . . . . you don;t have to be an MBA to see where this is going.

 

[Wesb737fo]

In BWI, while waiting to do a BDA turn, I walked up to see if the plane was there. Passing the gate I saw a big bag from Potbellies (our crew meals). I asked the gate agent if the sandwiches were our crew meals and she said yes but she wasn't allowed to give them to us because it had to be an ops agent. Having heard this a lot lately, I just smiled and said o.k. A while later our flight attendants walked up and inquired about the same bag of food. The gate agent told them the same thing she told me. One of them laughed in her face and as they walked away I heard them say " how effed up is this operation ...they can't even hand out a sandwich!" I almost fell over.

 

[SWA Bubba]

In BWI, while waiting to do a BDA turn, I walked up to see if the plane was there. Passing the gate I saw a big bag from Potbellies (our crew meals). I asked the gate agent if the sandwiches were our crew meals and she said yes but she wasn't allowed to give them to us because it had to be an ops agent. Having heard this a lot lately, I just smiled and said o.k. A while later our flight attendants walked up and inquired about the same bag of food. The gate agent told them the same thing she told me. One of them laughed in her face and as they walked away I heard them say " how effed up is this operation ...they can't even hand out a sandwich!" I almost fell over.

Who do you work for that gets you crew meals from Potbellies?

Bubba

 

[waveflyer]

Hey air tran peanut gallery- how on earth has SWA ever made a profit???

Maybe, just maybe - you guys have a LOT to learn about the company that bought you- esp since half the full retard mode started with your purchase.
think about that-

you guys haven't done one thing to make this integration go smoothly- so if things are a bit fubar at the moment - maybe you could ask how you're helping the situation instead of pissing about SLI -
Goes for our side too- we're stuck and all out of a job if we don't figure it out

 

[tankerhead]

Wave,

At each station, AT ops(gate availability, dispatch, turns, baggage handling, etc.) were running more or less perfectly well after the purchase. The wheels come off once the operation is handed over to you guys. It is a tangible, depressing phenomenon that has nothing to do with any SLI bellyaching.

The ops agent/gate agent business is absolutely asinine. Folks are getting written up for "helping". Does that sound like everyone pulling in the same direction? Maybe I'll think twice about running that stroller up the stairs next time.

I was ready to guzzle the kool aid, but I'm starting to think that it's the Jim Jones variety.

 

[texman]

Wave,

At each station, AT ops(gate availability, dispatch, turns, baggage handling, etc.) were running more or less perfectly well after the purchase. The wheels come off once the operation is handed over to you guys. It is a tangible, depressing phenomenon that has nothing to do with any SLI bellyaching.

The ops agent/gate agent business is absolutely asinine. Folks are getting written up for "helping". Does that sound like everyone pulling in the same direction? Maybe I'll think twice about running that stroller up the stairs next time.

I was ready to guzzle the kool aid, but I'm starting to think that it's the Jim Jones variety.

I would love to be written up for helping. I would loved to explain this to my chief pilot.