Southwest bumped out of base?

[wood pecker]

Can a junior FO get a senior base such as MCO or BWI with the hopes of getting bumped out when the senior guys come over in the next 2 years?

The rumor or fact is that a pilot who gets bumped out has more options than a pilot that did not. So in training if everyone senior to you takes OAK or HOU because they want to avoid reserves in MCO and you get stuck with being on the bottom in MCO it is ok. The reason being all of the senior guys who will be coming over will bump you out of MCO giving you a better chance of getting ATL over a guy who didn't get bumped.

Did that make any sense?

 

[PropPiedmont]

Nope & nope.

 

[BentOver]

Displacements usually go to what ever your seniority can hold..... If you get displaced from MCO, typically if you are senior to any ATL person, you can bump them... That's been my experience...

 

[wood pecker]

That busts that myth. Sounded too weird to be true but while studying I read there are close to 2,000 different things between the way both airlines operate the -700. That sounded too weird as well but it was verified by friend in ground school.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Once you're in a base, you cannot get bumped out by someone more senior, just because they decide that they want that base. You can ONLY get displaced out of a base if:
1) That base has a reduction in the number of pilots in your seat, and not enough pilots voluntarily bid out of the base during that period, or
2) A different base has a reduction, and a pilot more senior to you gets displaced out of it as in #1 above, and his next choice is YOUR base, and there's no growth in your base to accommodate him. In that case he goes to your base, and the bottom guy gets displaced out to HIS next choice. This is called a secondary displacement.

When there's any growth at all, neither of these things happen much. New guys typically go to the most junior base, and everyone else gets to move to a more desirable base (or have more people behind them). It's when there's absolutely no growth at all and the planners tweak schedules to move a few pilot numbers from base to base, that displacements happen more often. With six-plus-going-on-eight-thousand pilots, there's always a bunch of pilots, every month, who want to go to a different base than the one they're in, so that helps somewhat.

If you ARE displaced out of your base, you can either take a paid move (with all the financial benefits that come with that), or you can have the company reimburse you for one hotel room per pairing (or up to two hotel rooms per reserve pairing) for the first three months in your new base. At least I think it's three months; it may be more.

There is no "right of return" in our contract (although a lot of people would like it, and want the union to bargain for it), so if you DO get displaced out of a base, you don't have any special right in subsequent bid periods to get back ahead of anyone more senior to you who also wants it. That's pretty much why the "gamesmanship" that you spoke of will not help you keep or get to a more desirable base.

The bottom line is, that you should always bid what you really want. Always bid the bases in the order that you want them. Hope this helps.

Bubba

 

[Tripower455]

Once you're in a base, you cannot get bumped out by someone more senior, just because they decide that they want that base.

While this is technically accurate, lack of ROR effectively allows a senior guy to bump (or more accurately, keep) a displaced junior guy out of his base.

The difference is that it takes a vacancy bid or 2 to accomplish, but the end result is the same.

As much as I love this company, our vacancy bid system sucks for the junior folks and is in dire need of overhaul. We are not a 2 domicile, in the same state, airline anymore.

 

[fam62c]

While this is technically accurate, lack of ROR effectively allows a senior guy to bump (or more accurately, keep) a displaced junior guy out of his base.

The difference is that it takes a vacancy bid or 2 to accomplish, but the end result is the same.

As much as I love this company, our vacancy bid system sucks for the junior folks and is in dire need of overhaul. We are not a 2 domicile, in the same state, airline anymore.

How do the more senior pilots feel about that? Who should get what they want, the more senior pilot or the more junior pilot? I'm just saying........that's how seniority works for pretty much everything in a union contract.

 

[wood pecker]

Unless you want to waste 30 seconds no need to read the following.

That was the best explanation I've seen. Thank you.

Your example is what I misunderstood earlier. What I thought was a junior pilot picks BWI first and ATL second and is the last guy in BWI.

MDW reduces by 1 and that displaced guy chose BWI as his 2nd choice so the last guy in BWI gets bumped out unless BWI grows. The bumped guy's 2nd choice is ATL so he would get rights into ATL out of seniority order because he got secondarily displaced.

 

[Tripower455]

How do the more senior pilots feel about that? Who should get what they want, the more senior pilot or the more junior pilot? I'm just saying........that's how seniority works for pretty much everything in a union contract.

I am a relatively senior guy, and have NO problem with ROR for a guy that bid, was awarded and moved to a domicile, and was then involuntarily displaced. The -3/+1 monthly vacancy bid is the real problem, IMHO. It really wreaks havoc on the QOL of our junior folks. ROR is industry standard, and for good reason.

If the junior guy could hold it, then the senior guy could too.

 

[27 driver]

I am a relatively senior guy, and have NO problem with ROR for a guy that bid, was awarded and moved to a domicile, and was then involuntarily displaced. The -3/+1 monthly vacancy bid is the real problem, IMHO. It really wreaks havoc on the QOL of our junior folks. ROR is industry standard, and for good reason.

If the junior guy could hold it, then the senior guy could too.

Are you guys considering smaller satellite bases in this round of negotiations. That would probably take some of the pressure off all the domeciles. Maybe TPA, STL, BNA etc. Aside from ATL how is SWA going to absorb 1700 AAI pilots in existing bases?

 

[Tripower455]

Are you guys considering smaller satellite bases in this round of negotiations. That would probably take some of the pressure off all the domeciles. Maybe TPA, STL, BNA etc. Aside from ATL how is SWA going to absorb 1700 AAI pilots in existing bases?

I'm not sure what's going on this time around, but I can guarantee that until the pain is felt west of the Mississippi, nothing's gonna change. The senior guys care more about their ability to vacation poach and move their boats around more than about the plight of the junior.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Are you guys considering smaller satellite bases in this round of negotiations. That would probably take some of the pressure off all the domeciles. Maybe TPA, STL, BNA etc. Aside from ATL how is SWA going to absorb 1700 AAI pilots in existing bases?

Right now, the plan is just that: absorb the 1700 AirTran pilots into the existing 9 (soon to be 10 with ATL opening in August). How does that work? Grow the domiciles to accommodate the bodies. Lots of guys like the idea of satellite bases, and in fact we've got at least one guy who's personally done lots of research. Read one of our Reporting Points; he's always posting letters about this. However, thus far, the company has been reluctant to try it. A year or two back, the company talked about trying it with the FAs for a test, but never actually pulled the trigger. Some believe it will never happen. On the other hand, a few years ago, who would have predicted this acquisition? So who knows what will actually happen the future?

Bubba

 

[redflyer65]

Are you guys considering smaller satellite bases in this round of negotiations. That would probably take some of the pressure off all the domeciles. Maybe TPA, STL, BNA etc. Aside from ATL how is SWA going to absorb 1700 AAI pilots in existing bases?

The company seems to be more interested than ever in the idea of small outstation virtual bases just to reduce the hotel cost.

Will it actually happen? Could still be awhile.

 

[wood pecker]

One of the monthly hotel publications mentioned that 3 hotels are used in TPA. In recurrent we asked about all of the hotel cost vs a base. Supposedly, to staff it with a chief pilot and other personnel would be more costly. I Don't know if that's true but with all recurrent stories truth should not get in the way.

 

[27 driver]

One of the monthly hotel publications mentioned that 3 hotels are used in TPA. In recurrent we asked about all of the hotel cost vs a base. Supposedly, to staff it with a chief pilot and other personnel would be more costly. I Don't know if that's true but with all recurrent stories truth should not get in the way.

Couldn't they use MCO's CP for TPA? Some adjustments would have to be made but it is doable.

 

[fam62c]

Couldn't they use MCO's CP for TPA? Some adjustments would have to be made but it is doable.

That's what I would think, you don't have to duplicate a full management structure everywhere....keep it simple.

 

[fam62c]

The company seems to be more interested than ever in the idea of small outstation virtual bases just to reduce the hotel cost.

Will it actually happen? Could still be awhile.

It could also reduce absenteeism if there were more people who lived in base and fewer commuters. How many sick calls are a result of commuting troubles? I would think that the crewmembers who live in these places would have a very strong incentive to make it work if they wanted to keep their local domiciles. With only one aircraft type it seem like a workable system to build lines in cities where there are a good number of overnight aircraft and there are pilots and FA's who live there who would like to be based at home. I think a lot of people might be willing to offer the company some flexibility to make the system work if they could be based at home.

It certainly seems like an idea worth seriously looking into. If everybody wanted to make it work it would work. In my opinion, the difference between commuting and being based at home is night and day....a huge QOL benefit.

 

[Bwipilot]

The rumor or fact is that a pilot who gets bumped out has more options than a pilot that did not. So in training if everyone senior to you takes OAK or HOU because they want to avoid reserves in MCO and you get stuck with being on the bottom in MCO it is ok. The reason being all of the senior guys who will be coming over will bump you out of MCO giving you a better chance of getting ATL over a guy who didn't get bumped.

Did that make any sense?

The only way it helps is if the pilot gets displaced and is senior enough to hold ATL but there aren't any ATL openings. If a pilot is displaced out of a base, he can bump a junior pilot out of another base that he wants to go to. In the case of ATL, it'll be growing so needed to bump someone junior won't likely be an issue. In any case, you still can't bump someone senior--because that would be displacing someone senior.

Also, pilots senior to you can fill any openings. Once the shuffle gets down to you, there still has to be pilot junior to you to use your displacement rights--or an open seat if you haven't been displaced. Like the previous poster noted, the best thing is to bid what you want and not try to out think the game.